Letting Agent & Landlord won't accept me rescinding myself as a tenant Guarantor

hitman126

I signed to be a guarantor for a friend when she rented a property nearly 5 years ago. The tenancy was a 12 month AST. 

Earlier this year I decided it was time to rescind my guarantorship and so both myself and the Tenant notified the Letting Agent and all other relevant parties to remove my name from that arrangement and relieve me of that obligation. The tenant by the way has never defaulted on her rent to this day, throughout the entire tenancy.

It has been over 6 months since this change request was initiated, but what has since transpired has been a case of the Letting Agent and Landlord deliberately doing everything to frustrate me and responding with countless misleading email responses that they're still awaiting a response from such and such agent, landlord, some individual, etc, etc.

After months of putting up with their games, I recently issued them with a deadline and ultimatum that if they failed to implement the change requested jointly by the Tenant and myself by close of business Friday, 06 Oct 2023, I would report the matter to the appropriate authorities. They eventually came back to advise that the Landlord has advised that he'd like the Guarantorship arrangements to remain in place.

As far as the tenancy is concerned, here are some key details to describe the current status.

• The rent was increased on a new tenancy agreement issued about a couple of years ago, without any notice to me.
• The tenancy lapsed into a periodic tenancy more than a year ago, as no new tenancy agreement was issued to the tenant at the end of the previous term.

I therefore have a few questions for which I hope some of our esteemed and knowledgeable forum members here can assist with. I'd like to know the following:

1. Where or how would be the best route for me to seek redress to my grievance?
2. Would it be valid to lodge a complaint with the Information Commissioner's Office for continued misuse of my personal data by the Letting Agents/Landlord, etc?
3. I am led to believe that changes to the original tenancy, for example, the rent increase of which I was not notified, renders the original guarantorship to now become invalid. Is this indeed the case?
4. I am led to believe that when a tenancy lapses into a periodic tenancy, a Guarantor's obligation can/should cease. Is this the case?
5. Can a guarantorship arrangement continue in perpetuity?
6. Can a Landlord and/or Letting Agent impose guarantor obligations on a person, even where the Guarantor and Tenant, two main principal parties, have asked for that arrangement to be terminated?

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anselld

There is generally no basis to rescind a guarantor agreement for the duration of a tenancy.  So unless a complete new tenancy has been agreed the guarantor agreement continues and you have no grounds for complaint.

Grumpy_chap

hitman126 said:

I signed to be a guarantor for a friend when she rented a property nearly 5 years ago. The tenancy was a 12 month AST. 

Earlier this year I decided it was time to rescind my guarantorship and so both myself and the Tenant notified the Letting Agent and all other relevant parties to remove my name from that arrangement and relieve me of that obligation. The tenant by the way has never defaulted on her rent to this day, throughout the entire tenancy.

It has been over 6 months since this change request was initiated, but what has since transpired has been a case of the Letting Agent and Landlord deliberately doing everything to frustrate me and responding with countless misleading email responses that they're still awaiting a response from such and such agent, landlord, some individual, etc, etc.

After months of putting up with their games, I recently issued them with a deadline and ultimatum that if they failed to implement the change requested jointly by the Tenant and myself by close of business Friday, 06 Oct 2023, I would report the matter to the appropriate authorities. They eventually came back to advise that the Landlord has advised that he'd like the Guarantorship arrangements to remain in place.

As far as the tenancy is concerned, here are some key details to describe the current status.

• The rent was increased a few years ago without any notice to me.
• The tenancy lapsed into a periodic tenancy more than a year ago, as no new tenancy agreement was issued to the tenant at the end of the previous term.

I therefore have a few questions for which I hope some of our esteemed and knowledgeable forum members here can assist with. I'd like to know the following:

1. Where or how would be the best route for me to seek redress to my grievance?
2. Would it be valid to lodge a complaint with the Information Commissioner's Office for continued misuse of my personal data by the Letting Agents/Landlord, etc?
3. I am led to believe that changes to the original tenancy, for example, the rent increase of which I was not notified, renders the original guarantorship to now become invalid. Is this indeed the case?
4. I am led to believe that when a tenancy lapses into a periodic tenancy, a Guarantor's obligation can/should cease. Is this the case?
5. Can a guarantorship arrangement continue in perpetuity?
6. Can a Landlord and/or Letting Agent impose guarantor obligations on a person, even where the Guarantor and Tenant, two main principal parties, have asked for that arrangement to be terminated?

Was the rent increase applied in line with the rules set out in the contract?

It is normal for an AST to migrate to PT if no action to the contrary is taken, that will have been set out in the original AST.

Responding to the questions:
1 - I can't think of any organisation you would escalate this to.
2 - In what way is your data being misused?
3 - Was the rent increase imposed inline with the rules set out in the original tenancy?  If so, it would not automatically render the guarantorship invalid.
4 - Why do you believe that?  The normal terms of an AST are that the contract becomes PT.
5 - Yes
6 - Yes

Put yourselves in the position of the LL / LA.  What would be in it for them to allow the tenant to remain but the guarantor to cease?
At the moment, the rent is paid by the tenant.
If the tenant does not pay, the LL / LA can require the guarantor to pay.  Who will provide that back-up if the guarantor has ceased to be a guarantor?

I note you say the tenant has never defaulted.  From a LL / LA perspective, the reason the tenant never defaulted might well be because of the pressure that would be applied on the friendship in the event of default.  Take that friend / guarantor out of the equation and the impetus for the tenant to pay might be less.

theartfullodger

Complicated area.


Under the terms of the guarantee you signed, what rights to you have to rescind?? They usually are none, unless tenancy changes

See....

https://forumarchive.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/residential-letting-questions/73441-tenancy-guarantees

secla

If the landlord doesn't want to remove you and why would they it has no benefit to them then generally the only way you would be released is when the tenancy comes to an end eg. the tenant leaves or is evicted.

This is the reason why its generally advised against as your on the hook until someone decides otherwise

deannagone

Where did you get your 'led to believe' information from?

_Penny_Dreadful

You’re barking up the wrong tree with the ICO. Nothing you’ve posted indicates that your private data has been misused. 

What good would a guarantor agreement be to a landlord if the guarantor could unilaterally decide to rescind the guarantee? That said a guarantee is very unlikely to last in perpetuity and most guarantees are not executed correctly as deeds so aren’t worth the paper they are written on. 

Was the guarantee executed as a deed (i.e. was your signature witnessed) and were you given sight of a copy of the AST before signing the deed? If neither are true then the guarantee is worthless.  If both are true then keep reading.  

It is possible for a guarantee to extend beyond the original fixed term but only if the deed of guarantee says so and only if the clause extending the guarantee to also cover the periodic tenancy is fair. Who decides what’s fair, that would be the Consumer Rights Act 2015. What does the guarantee you signed say about what happens after the fixed term? If it says nothing then you stopped guaranteeing anything once the fixed term ends. 

If the guarantee does include the periodic tenancy then the guarantee lasts until the tenancy changes significantly. The rent increase would be considered a significant change as you can’t be held to guarantee an amount of rent you never agreed to in the first place. 

In conclusion I strongly suspect that regardless of what the landlord or letting agent might think you are guaranteeing Sweet Fanny Adams at the moment so there is nothing to rescind. You can stop issuing ultimatums now. 

doodling

Hi,

_Penny_Dreadful said:

You’re barking up the wrong tree with the ICO. Nothing you’ve posted indicates that your private data has been misused. 

What good would a guarantor agreement be to a landlord if the guarantor could unilaterally decide to rescind the guarantee? That said a guarantee is very unlikely to last in perpetuity and most guarantees are not executed correctly as deeds so aren’t worth the paper they are written on. 

Was the guarantee executed as a deed (i.e. was your signature witnessed) and were you given sight of a copy of the AST before signing the deed? If neither are true then the guarantee is worthless.  If both are true then keep reading.  

It is possible for a guarantee to extend beyond the original fixed term but only if the deed of guarantee says so and only if the clause extending the guarantee to also cover the periodic tenancy is fair. Who decides what’s fair, that would be the Consumer Rights Act 2015. What does the guarantee you signed say about what happens after the fixed term? If it says nothing then you stopped guaranteeing anything once the fixed term ends. 

If the guarantee does include the periodic tenancy then the guarantee lasts until the tenancy changes significantly. The rent increase would be considered a significant change as you can’t be held to guarantee an amount of rent you never agreed to in the first place. 

In conclusion I strongly suspect that regardless of what the landlord or letting agent might think you are guaranteeing Sweet Fanny Adams at the moment so there is nothing to rescind. You can stop issuing ultimatums now. 

I'm not sure that an increase in rent would necessarily void the guarantee but I would be surprised if the guarantee increased along with the rent (that would seem unreasonable - what if the tenant agreed a 300% rent incease?).

Practically there is absolutely no point in attempting to rescind, or even discuss the guarantee with the landlord/agent.  That is never going to lead to them releasing you from the guarantee as there is no benefit to them in doing so.  Attempting that discussion might also result in the tenant being given notice (if that is legally possible in your part of the union).

The only solution is to forget about the guarantee and only worry about its validity in the event that someone tries to call on it.  At that point you can look at the full facts at the time and decide whether you pay up or let the landlord take you to court.

_Penny_Dreadful

doodling said:

Hi,

_Penny_Dreadful said:

You’re barking up the wrong tree with the ICO. Nothing you’ve posted indicates that your private data has been misused. 

What good would a guarantor agreement be to a landlord if the guarantor could unilaterally decide to rescind the guarantee? That said a guarantee is very unlikely to last in perpetuity and most guarantees are not executed correctly as deeds so aren’t worth the paper they are written on. 

Was the guarantee executed as a deed (i.e. was your signature witnessed) and were you given sight of a copy of the AST before signing the deed? If neither are true then the guarantee is worthless.  If both are true then keep reading.  

It is possible for a guarantee to extend beyond the original fixed term but only if the deed of guarantee says so and only if the clause extending the guarantee to also cover the periodic tenancy is fair. Who decides what’s fair, that would be the Consumer Rights Act 2015. What does the guarantee you signed say about what happens after the fixed term? If it says nothing then you stopped guaranteeing anything once the fixed term ends. 

If the guarantee does include the periodic tenancy then the guarantee lasts until the tenancy changes significantly. The rent increase would be considered a significant change as you can’t be held to guarantee an amount of rent you never agreed to in the first place. 

In conclusion I strongly suspect that regardless of what the landlord or letting agent might think you are guaranteeing Sweet Fanny Adams at the moment so there is nothing to rescind. You can stop issuing ultimatums now. 

I'm not sure that an increase in rent would necessarily void the guarantee but I would be surprised if the guarantee increased along with the rent (that would seem unreasonable - what if the tenant agreed a 300% rent incease?).

I didn't say anything about a rent increase voiding the guarantee, I said it would be considered a material change to what had been originally guaranteed and that the guarantor can't be held to a new rent amount, which you seem to agree with.

hitman126

Grumpy_chap said:

hitman126 said:

I signed to be a guarantor for a friend when she rented a property nearly 5 years ago. The tenancy was a 12 month AST. 

Earlier this year I decided it was time to rescind my guarantorship and so both myself and the Tenant notified the Letting Agent and all other relevant parties to remove my name from that arrangement and relieve me of that obligation. The tenant by the way has never defaulted on her rent to this day, throughout the entire tenancy.

It has been over 6 months since this change request was initiated, but what has since transpired has been a case of the Letting Agent and Landlord deliberately doing everything to frustrate me and responding with countless misleading email responses that they're still awaiting a response from such and such agent, landlord, some individual, etc, etc.

After months of putting up with their games, I recently issued them with a deadline and ultimatum that if they failed to implement the change requested jointly by the Tenant and myself by close of business Friday, 06 Oct 2023, I would report the matter to the appropriate authorities. They eventually came back to advise that the Landlord has advised that he'd like the Guarantorship arrangements to remain in place.

As far as the tenancy is concerned, here are some key details to describe the current status.

• The rent was increased a few years ago without any notice to me.
• The tenancy lapsed into a periodic tenancy more than a year ago, as no new tenancy agreement was issued to the tenant at the end of the previous term.

I therefore have a few questions for which I hope some of our esteemed and knowledgeable forum members here can assist with. I'd like to know the following:

1. Where or how would be the best route for me to seek redress to my grievance?
2. Would it be valid to lodge a complaint with the Information Commissioner's Office for continued misuse of my personal data by the Letting Agents/Landlord, etc?
3. I am led to believe that changes to the original tenancy, for example, the rent increase of which I was not notified, renders the original guarantorship to now become invalid. Is this indeed the case?
4. I am led to believe that when a tenancy lapses into a periodic tenancy, a Guarantor's obligation can/should cease. Is this the case?
5. Can a guarantorship arrangement continue in perpetuity?
6. Can a Landlord and/or Letting Agent impose guarantor obligations on a person, even where the Guarantor and Tenant, two main principal parties, have asked for that arrangement to be terminated?

Was the rent increase applied in line with the rules set out in the contract?

It is normal for an AST to migrate to PT if no action to the contrary is taken, that will have been set out in the original AST.

Responding to the questions:
1 - I can't think of any organisation you would escalate this to.
2 - In what way is your data being misused?
3 - Was the rent increase imposed inline with the rules set out in the original tenancy?  If so, it would not automatically render the guarantorship invalid.
4 - Why do you believe that?  The normal terms of an AST are that the contract becomes PT.
5 - Yes
6 - Yes

Put yourselves in the position of the LL / LA.  What would be in it for them to allow the tenant to remain but the guarantor to cease?
At the moment, the rent is paid by the tenant.
If the tenant does not pay, the LL / LA can require the guarantor to pay.  Who will provide that back-up if the guarantor has ceased to be a guarantor?

I note you say the tenant has never defaulted.  From a LL / LA perspective, the reason the tenant never defaulted might well be because of the pressure that would be applied on the friendship in the event of default.  Take that friend / guarantor out of the equation and the impetus for the tenant to pay might be less.

With regards your comments on my queries #3, 4 & 5..........please read up articles from the links I've added to my original post.

hitman126

anselld said:

There is generally no basis to rescind a guarantor agreement for the duration of a tenancy.  So unless a complete new tenancy has been agreed the guarantor agreement continues and you have no grounds for complaint.

Well, there is a basis to rescind because I don't wish to continue in that role for whatever personal reason or circumstance for which I'm entitled to and should be my right to demand and/or uphold.

Yes, granted that the terms of the agreement may legally bind me to my Guarantor obligation, but to suggest there's no basis is factually incorrect..........in my opinion.