DCBLegal - McDonalds Birstall, Leeds. Letter before action?

wolfycat786

Hi all,

I'll try and summarise the order of events concisely. The registered keeper:

- 4th Feb '23, Overstayed at McDonalds car park in Leeds, Birstall (around the corner from Tim Hortons/Showcase) by 17 minutes. No purchase was made at the time. This was at midnight, so naturally dark. Don't recall seeing any signs but potentially were there. UKPC parking operator.

- 8th Feb '23 (dated), Received a PCN for £50. Appealed this right away with the wording in the newbies thread.

- 15th Mar '23 (dated), Received a letter from UKPC asking the registered keeper to confirm full name, address of the driver to appeals department however wording of the letter seemed clear that there was no intention to consider. Typical patronising language of checking for signs when entering a parking area as one would when driving on motorway. Ignored.

- 6th Apr '23 (dated), Received a letter from UKPC saying as no information has been received as part of the 'appeal' to either pay the £50 or the £100 at POPLA. Ignored.

- Between Apr - Sept - The 'debt' was passed to Debt Recovery Plus (DRP) and DCB Legal with subsequent letters chasing the 'debt' and threatening legal action. As per the newbie thread, ignored all letters.

- 7th Oct '23 (received) - An envelope with a letter inside along with previous correspondence including my initial appeal and UKPC responses.. I don't remember responding on 22/09/2023 but in my frustration I may have online, doubling down saying I refuse to pay and inviting them to take me to court if they disagree.

"We write in response to your correspondence received in our office dated 22/09/2023. We now respond to the same as follows.

The parking charge notice (PCN) was issued because the vehicle remained on private property in breach of the parking contract. The British Parking Association (BPA) approved signage clearly stated, "90 MINUTES MAXIMUM STAY". Your vehicle was recorded on the private property for 1 hour 47 minutes on 05/02/2023. Therefore, the PCN was issued correctly.

When parking on private land, the contractual terms of the site are set out on the signs. You are entering a contract and agreeing to the terms by parking and staying on site. Parking in breach of the terms as stipulated on the signage means you are then breaking the terms of the contract. As payment was not made, our client was entitled to instruct DCB Legal to pursue payment and is entitled to recover the costs of doing so. It would have been made clear in the terms and conditions set out in the signs that additional enforcement costs may be incurred in the event of non-payment.

Pursuing a legally owed debt is not harassment. You may wish to seek independent legal advice in this regard. Our client pursuing this matter through the Small Claims Court is the correct course of action.

You now have 30 days from the date of this letter to make payment of £170.00. Failure to make payment will result in a Claim being issued against you without any further reference.

You must quote the correct case reference (Case Reference Redacted) when making payment. If you do not, we may be unable to correctly allocate the payment. If further action is taken by us as a result of an Incorrect reference being quoted, you will be liable for any further fees or costs incurred."

The envelope includes a scan of the sign, supposedly on the location.

Just wanted to clarify, does this seem like they're getting ready to take me to court? Can I hopefully expect DCBLegal to follow this pattern? https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6377263/dcb-legal-record-of-private-parking-court-claim-discontinuations/p1

Is this just another letter I can ignore as another threat? Just wanted to double check with you lovely people. Thank you in advance for all the guidance you've provided to many people so far.

KeithP

To me, that looks very much like a Letter of Claim.

The first few paragraphs of the second post in the NEWBIES thread explains how to react upon receipt of a Letter of Claim.

wolfycat786

Thanks Keith. Lengthy read. I've sent the SAR to UKPC and informed DCB Legal. I can't forsee getting through to anybody at McDonalds in Birstall regarding a complaint about this. Will see what happens next and if I get a letter, we do the dance.

Coupon-mad

The bit about LBC stage is a tiny read.

UncleThomasCobley

If it is a Letter of Claim, it must include all the annexe documents/forms (that you do not fill in) as per the PAP:

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/debt-pap.pdf

Did it include all those additional documents/forms? I note that you have sent a SAR to UKPC which, unfortunately, should not be done when dealing with DCB Legal claims, at least until after a claim is received. However, you are correct in that this is just another case that will probably end up being discontinued if you follow all the advice as per the Newbies/FAQ thread.

wolfycat786

Back again. Thanks all for the help so far.

Looks like a Claim Form has arrived today. 

Issue date: 5th Feb 2024
DCB Legal

Amount claimed: £183.32
Court fee: £35
Legal rep costs: £50
Total: £268.32

Original PCN (plus damages) was £170 + 8% per annum in interest.

It includes a 'response pack' (acknowledgement of service), an  admission form and defence/counterclaim form.

I've been reading through the Newbie thread (2nd post) and getting a bit turned around (perhaps slightly panicked) as to how I should respond at this point. 

Is this what I should be looking to do next? https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6108153/suggested-template-defence-to-adapt-for-all-parking-charge-cases-where-they-add-false-admin-costs/p1

KeithP

wolfycat786 said:

Looks like a Claim Form has arrived today. 
Issue date: 5th Feb 2024

With a Claim Issue Date of 5th February, you have until Monday 26th February to file an Acknowledgment of Service.  Do not file an Acknowledgment of Service before 10th February, but otherwise there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 11th March 2024 to file your Defence.

That's over four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

wolfycat786

Understood. Thank you KeithP, especially for putting so succinctly and clearly.

I'll post a draft of my defence here some time next week. To be honest with you the only thing I can think at the time is that it was a very dimly lit winter night and I definitely don't remember seeing the signs but I'm sure they're there. My friend and I used the McDonalds bathrooms and that was all. I'll use the newbie thread to help me with my defence. 

Coupon-mad

Dark unlit signs is a solid basis of defence. Be confident!

Le_Kirk

wolfycat786 said:

Understood. Thank you KeithP, especially for putting so succinctly and clearly.

I'll post a draft of my defence here some time next week. To be honest with you the only thing I can think at the time is that it was a very dimly lit winter night and I definitely don't remember seeing the signs but I'm sure they're there. My friend and I used the McDonalds bathrooms and that was all. I'll use the newbie thread to help me with my defence. 

But just the paragraphs you add to or change from the standard defence template, we don't need to see it all.

wolfycat786

Update: 16th March 2024

Hi all,

Have been very ill for a while (still am) but just wanted to update where i'm at so far on here, partly for myself, partly for others.

I submitted my AOS via MCOL on the 17th Feb 2024, it was acknowledged 19th Feb.

I submitted my defence via a PDF attachment using the template provided in the newbie guide to the ClaimResponses.CNBC@justice.gov.uk email on the 9th March 2024. The only response at the time was an autoreply on the same day signed off with 'CS - Completed'.

I'll paste the paragraphs that were added to the defence below:

"3. The defendant respectfully submits this appeal to the court, seeking to overturn the parking violation charge. On the night in question, the defendant parked their car in the designated area of the McDonald's car park while waiting for food they had purchased. Due to using the restrooms, a queue and delay in service, the defendant and their friend received their food after a considerable amount of the parking allowance time had already elapsed. The defendant and their friend proceeded to consume their meal in the car before departing. The defendant acknowledges that the duration of their stay exceeded normal expectations, however, attributes this to the circumstances of the delay. 

4. The defendant further asserts their habitual vigilance when it comes to parking regulations, highlighting that had they noticed the sign indicating parking restrictions, they would have promptly relocated their vehicle to comply with the rules. Given the defendant's typically conscientious approach to parking matters, the late hour and the poor lighting conditions, it stands to reason that their prolonged stay in the parking lot was a result of the aforementioned delay in service rather than a deliberate disregard for any posted regulations. After personally inspecting the site more than a year later, the defendant notes that the signage and lighting has since been considerably improved. This was not the case at the time of the alleged infringement. Therefore, the defendant urges the court to consider these mitigating circumstances and grant relief from the parking violation charge.

5. It is crucial to note that any signage allegedly containing terms imposed by UKPC was either nonexistent or insufficiently prominent to constitute a legally binding contract. The defendant emphasises the inadequacy of the signage in forming a valid agreement regarding parking terms. Moreover, the defendant asserts their inability to discern from the vague and generic "Roboclaim" bulk copy and paste particulars provided, the specific nature of the alleged breach."

Yesterday, (15th March 2024) I received an email from DCB Legal:

"Having reviewed the content of your defence, we write to inform you that our client intends to proceed with the claim."...

Along with the email, is an attachment of the claimants N180 Directions Questionnaire. If it's of any interest, DCB legal in their questionnaire have requested a remote hearing and they've answered question D1 as 'No' with the following:

"There are factual disputes that will need to be heard by the judge directly and the Claimant will need the opportunity to cross examine the Defendant and test any evidence put forward by the Defendant. There are also complex issues of fact and law that will be best argued orally."

Curious to note that the MCOL has not updated to indicate my defence has been submitted (I thought I read somewhere that would be), however:

Today (16th March 2024) I have received a letter from HM Courts & Tribunals Service (dated 13th March 2024)]

"I acknowlege receipt of your defence. A copy is being served on the claimant (or the claimant's solicitor). The claimant may contact you direct to attempt to resolve any dispute. If the dispute cannot be resolved informally, the claimant will inform the court that he wishes to proceed. The court will then inform you of what will happen.

Where he wishes to proceed, the claimant must contact the court with 28 days after receiving a copy of your defence. After that period has elapsed, the claim will be stayed. The only action the claimant can then take will be to apply to a judge for an order lifting the stay."

Judging by the date, DCB Legal's email is in direct response to the above, assuming they didnt even bother to read any of it.

So if I understand correctly, I should now be submitting a N180 form of my own to the courts. Would this be to the same email address I used to send my defence?

Thank you all for the guidance, I very much appreciate it.