NHS free dental treatment expensive mistake

Spoonie_Turtle

Danien said:

poppy12345 said:

In my dentist there's a sign up saying " It's your responsibility to know what benefits you're claiming" make sure you know before ticking boxes. Same for the pharmacy where I get my prescriptions from. 

Yes, but most people don't realise there are different types of jsa and esa. Some extra info like 'for some benefits only the income based benefit qualifies, please check that this is what you receive before ticking boxes).

This would make people aware that there is a difference. In not making people aware, we are basically asking them to know something that they not even think to question.

In another thread the person was asked by the receptionist 'are you on jsa', the person said yes and the receptionist ticked the form. They did not even say 'are you on income based jsa'. There is a certain level of responsibility on the provider to at least give enough information so that the person seeking care at least knows what they should be looking for on an award letter or what they should ask the dwp if they are unsure.

The forms themselves do specify this, right by the boxes we tick.


Image description: a screenshot of the yellow Patient Declaration dentist form with the boxes for each qualifying benefit entitling one to free NHS treatment.

If dentists aren't giving the patients the form to fill in then yes they need to be trained to give all the information the form gives.  But at my dentist I'm given the form to fill in myself on the iPad and it very clearly states that only income-based counts, not contributions-based.

baz8755

A very simple but effective way would be a one strike system. Eg. If someone mistakenly claims free treatment that can elect to pay for treatment but be given clear notification they are not entitled and that any further incorrect claims will result in a fine.

This would certainly bring the issue to the attention of the client, no penalise them for a genuine mistake and make sure they are not likely to make the same mistake again. But it is far too easy and prosperous to hit everyone with a fine.

GingerTim

baz8755 said:

A very simple but effective way would be a one strike system. Eg. If someone mistakenly claims free treatment that can elect to pay for treatment but be given clear notification they are not entitled and that any further incorrect claims will result in a fine.

This would certainly bring the issue to the attention of the client, no penalise them for a genuine mistake and make sure they are not likely to make the same mistake again. But it is far too easy and prosperous to hit everyone with a fine.

This sounds like a system wide open to be abused.

baz8755

GingerTim said:

baz8755 said:

A very simple but effective way would be a one strike system. Eg. If someone mistakenly claims free treatment that can elect to pay for treatment but be given clear notification they are not entitled and that any further incorrect claims will result in a fine.

This would certainly bring the issue to the attention of the client, no penalise them for a genuine mistake and make sure they are not likely to make the same mistake again. But it is far too easy and prosperous to hit everyone with a fine.

This sounds like a system wide open to be abused.

How do you figure that?
No-one would be avoiding paying fees and those for whom it is reasonable to see how a mistake has been made learn they are not entitled, still pay the fees but are not needlessly fined. No-one will be able to abuse anything or get away without paying anything (except a fine for the first mis-claim).

Danien

sheramber said:

Danien said:

sheramber said:

All thrall these people do it out of choice. There is no requirement for them to do so. 

It is part of their customer service.
If dentists do not choose to train their staff that is a choice they are entitled to make.

My last dental surgery  did not know what was NHS treatment and charged me , incorrectly. 

It took a complaint to NHS Scotland to get them to admit ‘a training need’ and refund my money. 

Yes, simple training, which would take 15 minutes with a staff member - make sure people know that only the income based esa and jsa qualifies and if they aren't sure to check first. Simple. It's not onerous.

Who gets the money from the fines? Is it NHS in general or the dentist practice themselves?

but who does the training?  That person has to learn about the rules first.

Dentists are not going to spend time and money on somehting that is outside their  remit unless NHSare going to recompense them for it.

Not much chance of that happening.

Why should it not be the responsibilty of DWP to put  a note on their award letter to advise of any entitlement to free dental treatment/ nhs prescriptions etc. or  inform NHS who can issue a card as happened with tax credits?

Who does the training? How long does it take to give someone a card to read out to customers and refer queries back to DWP?

Danien

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Danien said:

poppy12345 said:

In my dentist there's a sign up saying " It's your responsibility to know what benefits you're claiming" make sure you know before ticking boxes. Same for the pharmacy where I get my prescriptions from. 

Yes, but most people don't realise there are different types of jsa and esa. Some extra info like 'for some benefits only the income based benefit qualifies, please check that this is what you receive before ticking boxes).

This would make people aware that there is a difference. In not making people aware, we are basically asking them to know something that they not even think to question.

In another thread the person was asked by the receptionist 'are you on jsa', the person said yes and the receptionist ticked the form. They did not even say 'are you on income based jsa'. There is a certain level of responsibility on the provider to at least give enough information so that the person seeking care at least knows what they should be looking for on an award letter or what they should ask the dwp if they are unsure.

The forms themselves do specify this, right by the boxes we tick.


Image description: a screenshot of the yellow Patient Declaration dentist form with the boxes for each qualifying benefit entitling one to free NHS treatment.

If dentists aren't giving the patients the form to fill in then yes they need to be trained to give all the information the form gives.  But at my dentist I'm given the form to fill in myself on the iPad and it very clearly states that only income-based counts, not contributions-based.

Yes, true, some give you the form, some ask you the question and then tick themselves. 

But this is the difference between ignorance and deliberate fraud. Penalties are supposed to be reserved for deliberate fraud. But too many people really don't understand the benefit they're on. In the end, to prevent innocent people from getting fraud penalties, and also to ensure those who ARE commiting fraud are receiving penalties are not allowed to use the 'ignorance' excuse, something else needs to be done.

I've dealt with claimants for many years. For some, they will never grasp and retain the information about income based or contribution based benefit, for ithers they won'trealise unless specifically told. They will say 'well it's my income so it's income based, surely'. 

Innocent people are being caught in this and financially penalised. Most people have no idea they are on a contribution based benefit but would qualify if they just applied for the hc2 certificate - in fact most of the claimants I gave the application had never heard of it. 

The whole area needs an education campaign, and it's certainly easier and cheaper to pay dentists to educate some receptionists for 15 minutes, than try to reach the entire population effectivelywuth a campaign.