Property Boundary Enquiry

Martinez83

We have just realised that the angled corner of our garden (it doesn’t border with anyone, its just in alleyway) might have actually been square in the past and was simply cut back by one of the previous owners to accommodate the gate into the backyard of the property (gate hich we do not longer use).

The indications for that challenge are as below:

- The “twin” properties on the opposite end of our main road haven’t got this angled feature on their garden fences (walls)

- The “twin” properties above ours do not have this angled walls either

- there is a distinct squared concrete layer on the ground protruding out of from our garden beyond the angled gate and its square suggesting the original area was indeed square

- there are even clear old boundary stones surrounding our property and over there they are cornered as square

Unfortunately for some reason our property deed shows a small angle which makes me think when it was created someone used the wall feature as boundary rather than the actual property area set by boundary stones.

As we would like to rebuild the wall to its square shape, I’ve been in touch with Land Register and Local Council to enquire that but neither of them were helpful beyond saying that they can only go off what we have on plans - but all the features (and common sense) suggest that these plans are wrong.

Has anyone been in similar situation before and what are our actual options here?

We are located in England.

Section62

Martinez83 said:

We have just realised that the angled corner of our garden (it doesn’t border with anyone, its just in alleyway) might have actually been square in the past and was simply cut back by one of the previous owners to accommodate the gate into the backyard of the property (gate hich we do not longer use).

The indications for that challenge are as below:

- The “twin” properties on the opposite end of our main road haven’t got this angled feature on their garden fences (walls)

- The “twin” properties above ours do not have this angled walls either

- there is a distinct squared concrete layer on the ground protruding out of from our garden beyond the angled gate and its square suggesting the original area was indeed square

- there are even clear old boundary stones surrounding our property and over there they are cornered as square

Unfortunately for some reason our property deed shows a small angle which makes me think when it was created someone used the wall feature as boundary rather than the actual property area set by boundary stones.

As we would like to rebuild the wall to its square shape, I’ve been in touch with Land Register and Local Council to enquire that but neither of them were helpful beyond saying that they can only go off what we have on plans - but all the features (and common sense) suggest that these plans are wrong.

Has anyone been in similar situation before and what are our actual options here?

We are located in England.

Who owns the alleyway?

Martinez83

No idea - I would have thought it is our council but as I said they had no clue how to approach this subject in the first place either.

The small area which I am questioning doesn’t look like part of the councils alleyway - it’s not cobblestoned like the road and is surrounded by boundary slabs which clearly start and surround all other parts of our property.

GoogleMeNow

Could there have been a tree there long ago and the fence was cut in around it?  Perhaps the tree is no longer therefore but the fence is.

Martinez83

GoogleMeNow said:

Could there have been a tree there long ago and the fence was cut in around it?  Perhaps the tree is no longer therefore but the fence is.

I honestly doubt it - the area looks perfectly even and the concrete layer it is covered with comes directly out from our garden.

Slinky

How large an area are you talking about?

Martinez83

Slinky said:

How large an area are you talking about?

I would say around 2 square meters / 22 sq feet

FreeBear

Have a look at some of the older OS maps for your area - https://maps.nls.uk/os/national-grid/ - Try the 1:1,250 and 1:2,500 scale maps. They should show how the boundary has changed over time.

A word of warning - It can be a rabbit hole exploring how the area has developed. There used to be brick kilns near where I live. And the plot my house stands on used to be small scale farms (market gardens).

Martinez83

FreeBear said:

Have a look at some of the older OS maps for your area - https://maps.nls.uk/os/national-grid/ - Try the 1:1,250 and 1:2,500 scale maps. They should show how the boundary has changed over time.

A word of warning - It can be a rabbit hole exploring how the area has developed. There used to be brick kilns near where I live. And the plot my house stands on used to be small scale farms (market gardens).

This was genius idea - it looks like in the older grid maps the plot was certainly square! Is this, together with enough evidence on the “ground” enough to confirm that this small triangle belongs to our property?

FreeBear

Martinez83 said:

FreeBear said:

Have a look at some of the older OS maps for your area - https://maps.nls.uk/os/national-grid/ - Try the 1:1,250 and 1:2,500 scale maps. They should show how the boundary has changed over time.

A word of warning - It can be a rabbit hole exploring how the area has developed. There used to be brick kilns near where I live. And the plot my house stands on used to be small scale farms (market gardens).

This was genius idea - it looks like in the older grid maps the plot was certainly square! Is this, together with enough evidence on the “ground” enough to confirm that this small triangle belongs to our property?

Legally, I wouldn't/couldn't comment. But if the historical evidence is compelling, it is up to you if you move the fence.

Martinez83

FreeBear said:

Martinez83 said:

FreeBear said:

Have a look at some of the older OS maps for your area - https://maps.nls.uk/os/national-grid/ - Try the 1:1,250 and 1:2,500 scale maps. They should show how the boundary has changed over time.

A word of warning - It can be a rabbit hole exploring how the area has developed. There used to be brick kilns near where I live. And the plot my house stands on used to be small scale farms (market gardens).

This was genius idea - it looks like in the older grid maps the plot was certainly square! Is this, together with enough evidence on the “ground” enough to confirm that this small triangle belongs to our property?

Legally, I wouldn't/couldn't comment. But if the historical evidence is compelling, it is up to you if you move the fence.

Well, the compelling evidence is apparently not enough for Land Registry to fix the records - they can only do it from formal documents and surprise, surprise - the ones they have from 1991 are incorrect.

Anything earlier they do not have so the heck am I supposed to find out where it went wrong if they do not want to acknowledge old national grid maps? This is so ridiculous.