NCP help please - PCN to keeper (Doncaster East Laith Gate)

Coupon-mad

Yes, AND if this is indeed land owned by the Council, then it is under statutory control.  The POFA doesn't apply.  No keeper liability.

cheltenham_ross

What does this mean for me? How do I approach things? (A) it arrived late - it arrived on the 2nd October, and clearly took 14 days to process and based on Coupon-Mad’s comment that there is no keeper liability? Does that mean it’s unenforceable?

UncleThomasCobley

It matters not one iota what date it actually arrived. What matters is the date it was "deemed" to have been delivered, which is two working days after the date on the NtK. If the NtK is dated 27/09/2023, then it is "deemed" to have been delivered on the 29th of September which is 16 days after the date of the period of parking. PoFA requires the NtK to have been delivered by day 14 after the period of parking, hence the NtK is not PoFA compliant, no matter what they claim in it being so.

Anyway, the above is academic, if as @Coupon-mad points out, it is council owned land, meaning that it is non-relevant land for the purpose of PoFA.

So, what does all that mean for you? Have you read the Newbies/FAQ thread where all this is explained?

As long as you do not identify the driver, your appeal as the RK means that you cannot be held liable for the PCN. Only the driver can be held liable and, unless you inadvertently or deliberately blab the identity of the driver, the have nowhere to go with this. You tell them to go chase the driver, who they have no idea who that is. Catch-22 for them.

Coupon-mad

cheltenham_ross said:

What does this mean for me? How do I approach things? (A) it arrived late - it arrived on the 2nd October, and clearly took 14 days to process and based on Coupon-Mad’s comment that there is no keeper liability? Does that mean it’s unenforceable?

But this is already covered in the NEWBIES thread including template appeal wording.  For POPLA stage too.

We have the NEWBIES thread so that we don't drown in answering the same basic stuff about no keeper liability and other simple appeal points that are already written in the sticky thread.

We have little time (we do this in our own time, we aren't forum moderators) and don't tend to repeat what's already there.  We signpost new posters to read it and use the resource.

You can't lose. Dead easy!

cheltenham_ross

All appreciated, I apologise for taking up your time but am grateful you have supported me. There is a lot in the newbies thread and I wasn’t sure I was tallying up the info correctly. 

Keep up the good work guys!

cheltenham_ross

Coupon-mad said:

Yes, AND if this is indeed land owned by the Council, then it is under statutory control.  The POFA doesn't apply.  No keeper liability.

I asked Doncaster council who owns the car park and they told me NCP own it. So POFA would apply?

KeithP

cheltenham_ross said:

Coupon-mad said:

Yes, AND if this is indeed land owned by the Council, then it is under statutory control.  The POFA doesn't apply.  No keeper liability.

I asked Doncaster council who owns the car park and they told me NCP own it. So POFA would apply?

POFA does not apply. As it has already been established that the Notice to Keeper was delivered too late to be able to hold the keeper liable, who owns the land is of no interest. It would of course been good to have a second reason for 'no keeper liability' but this can be managed without that.

Forget about POFA. Forget about keeper liability.

The only person who could have any liability is the driver.
Make sure the parking company never gets to find out who was driving.

Coupon-mad

As UncleTomCobley says:

As long as you do not identify the driver, your appeal as the RK means that you cannot be held liable for the PCN. Only the driver can be held liable and, unless you inadvertently or deliberately blab the identity of the driver, the have nowhere to go with this. You tell them to go chase the driver, who they have no idea who that is. Catch-22 for them.

GrannyKate

I guess the council must have sold it to NCP but I don't know when.  

UncleThomasCobley

cheltenham_ross said:

Coupon-mad said:

Yes, AND if this is indeed land owned by the Council, then it is under statutory control.  The POFA doesn't apply.  No keeper liability.

I asked Doncaster council who owns the car park and they told me NCP own it. So POFA would apply?

When you say you "asked" the council... who exactly did you "ask"? Could it possibly be that you "asked" someone who meant that the car park in question is "run" by NCP? Perhaps you need to clarify with the council (in writing/email) if they really did sell the car park to NCP and when.