Alcove Carcass – Glue or not Glue?

paperclap

Hi all,

I’m somewhat nearing the completion of this project!

Now’s the time I’m assembling everything, etc. However, before I nip everything up… do I or do I not glue the carcasses together?

They’re currently only held together with screws. I had originally planned to screw and glue. However, when positioning the carcasses side by side, ensuring things dat square, etc, I found the carcasses had a bit of side to side play in them, which give me a bit of good flexibility to ensure everything was square before nipping up.

When the spacers (I’m using space plugs) are in at the sides, nothing moves, which is great.

Question: If I add glue, it will obviously add strength. But, is that added strength (given everything is stationery) necessary? And if I do add glue, will I lose the ability to flex the carcasses side to side (to ensure there are perfectly square)?

paperclap

Anyone out there? Bump!

ThisIsWeird

Your units don't have backs to them? These are the actual walls we see there? Cool, that means your carcases do have a small degree of flex, which is always useful, tho' of course shouldn't be required since you are so skilled :-)

The units do sit nice and square? We are only talking about 5mm of flex being 'useful'?

In which case - either is fine Ie, the way your units are assembled, with the tops overlapping the sides, and the double-thickness of the verticals (the three units will be screwed together?), and all sitting on a solid timber bottom frame, this is simply not going to move. You are placing correctly-sized spacers in the side gaps, so that will make this lot completely rigid and flex-free.

Since each of the three sections can be unscrewed from its neighbours at any time, and each whole unit lifted out, I cannot see any reason to not glue the joints as well. If this had been a one-section top and ditto bottom with 4 vertical panels, and if I could anticipate wanting/needing to remove the unit at some point in the future - say to replace the flooring - then I'd consider instead only screwing, because that would mean I could easily disassemble the whole thing and temporarily lift it away. But, with three easily removable sections, I would happily add glue. Of course, don't glue the three boxes to each other!

The glue will give a marginal added rigidity - not really even needed - but hey. And the sides will still have a few mm of flex if that is needed for tweaks.

So - either is fine in this case. But glue too if there is no reason not to.

Mistral001

I would not use glue.  It might not hold if the units got a knock while installing them.  I have used the steel triangular brackets in similar situations where a back board is not feasable (see link below).  One in each top corner of each unit should be sufficient to keep the units stable and they will not be seen as the units are deep and close to the floor.  If you wanted to make the units rock solid, then you can put screws through the hole provided in the plaetes to fix the units to the wall.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/corner-plates-zinc-plated-83mm-x-0-9mm-x-83mm-10-pack/13954?tc=NA1&ds_rl=1247848&ds_rl=1244072&ds_rl=1241687&ds_rl=1247848&ds_rl=1245250&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIteLr4IrXgQMVtYCDBx2PXgXDEAQYByABEgL5qPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

paperclap

Nope, no back to the units. Wanted to utilise the minimal depth I had as much as possible, plus make life easier for myself when it came to the sockets.

Yeah, by and large, they're square as they are. There is a small amount of lateral movement.

And that's right, everything will be screwed together. Then, screw holes filled. Naturally, I don't intend on taking this apart. That said, I've placed the space plugs (outer spacers) to sit directly behind the mountain plates. So if at any point I do need to unmount from the wall, I can. Plus, less filling!

These are the space plugs. The beauty of them (with the lateral movement) is that I can, for example, tighten the thread on one side (say, left), and loosen the thread on the right side... and effectively skew the units until they're 100% spot on. Even if the three units are screwed together.

I don't mind gluing. But yeah, if at any point in the future I need to take this puppy apart (for example, drill another hole for cabling to feed through)... well, I won't be able to.

Think I'm sort of answering my own question here.

ChilliBob

I'm contemplating building alcove cupboards. With those space plugs, what do you intend to put over then to deal with, the I assume, not perfectly straight walls?

Do you template a bit to sort of clip in or something? 

paperclap

ChilliBob said:

I'm contemplating building alcove cupboards. With those space plugs, what do you intend to put over then to deal with, the I assume, not perfectly straight walls?

Do you template a bit to sort of clip in or something? 

To cover that void, a "filler strip" will be added in. It'll be scribed to the wall. I've yet to figure out the best way to fix it yet though. I know a lot of people use mitre bond to create a fixture-less fixing.

That's also the beauty of these space plugs. In the case you see here in my photo, the wall kicks out at the bottom, so I can tighten the bottom space plug to accommodate the lesser space between the wall and carcass.

ThisIsWeird

paperclap said:

Nope, no back to the units. Wanted to utilise the minimal depth I had as much as possible, plus make life easier for myself when it came to the sockets.

Yeah, by and large, they're square as they are. There is a small amount of lateral movement.

And that's right, everything will be screwed together. Then, screw holes filled. Naturally, I don't intend on taking this apart. That said, I've placed the space plugs (outer spacers) to sit directly behind the mountain plates. So if at any point I do need to unmount from the wall, I can. Plus, less filling!

These are the space plugs. The beauty of them (with the lateral movement) is that I can, for example, tighten the thread on one side (say, left), and loosen the thread on the right side... and effectively skew the units until they're 100% spot on. Even if the three units are screwed together.

I don't mind gluing. But yeah, if at any point in the future I need to take this puppy apart (for example, drill another hole for cabling to feed through)... well, I won't be able to.

Think I'm sort of answering my own question here.

Never seen these plugs before - really neat, and a cracking idea.

I'd position them at near top and bottom positions, so they don't press on the flexible sides. Where these are shown looks fine, and I guess the screw heads are even designed to fit under the hinge plates out of sight?

You aren't going to bother filling the top screwhead recesses, are you? They'll be hidden by the worktop.

What I would do - but that's my call - is to, yes, glue each individual box along their butts (matron!), and then dip each securing screw in PVA before insertion (ooh-er, mussus).

I would not glue each box to its neighbour - simply no need, and that would make future removal a 'mare.

Remind me - the doors will fit over the unit fronts? Does that mean that the scribed filler strips will also be out at door-face level? If so - and this might sound MickeyMouse - then you could fit a batten to the unit side, sitting in between the two spacers, and screwed through from the unit's inside in the same way, and sitting flush with the unit front lip. Then cut your filler strip to size, add the wee bevel to all edges like your doors will have, and attach it in place on to the batten using velcro - I'm not kidding. The velcro thickness will match the door clearance gap from the unit so it'll all be flush, and if you need to remove the unit, this will provide easy access. This will only work, tho', if you are ok with not trying to blend the filler to the wall as if it were one piece. Tbh, I think 'blending' would cause a few issues anyway - cracks forming, but also these are bespoke units, and are not 'wall'.

I have a couple of such panels in this room, held in place by velcro - one to provide access to the gas valve, and another for the mains stopcock. Works a treat.

paperclap

That's correct. I've purposefully placed the screw heads to sit directly under the hinge plates.

Correct again, not going to bother filling the top screw heads, as like you say, they'll be covered by the worktop.

That's right, these doors are overlay doors. That velcro idea is a good one, actually. That said, when the outer side of that filler strip is caulked (to the wall), and where the skirting board butts up to it (again, probably a dab of caulk at the join), won't the filler strip move a little too much (humidity changes, etc, etc), potentially causing the caulk to crack in places?

With regards to gluing the carcasses... I'd never planned to glue the carcasses to each other. That'd just be mental  but, what is your reasoning to glue at the joins? The more I'm thinking about it, I'm not sure the added (unnoticed) strength the glue will bring is worth it, given it'll take away the ability to strip a whole carcass apart, if need be.

ThisIsWeird

paperclap said:

That said, when the outer side of that filler strip is caulked (to the wall), and where the skirting board butts up to it (again, probably a dab of caulk at the join), won't the filler strip move a little too much (humidity changes, etc, etc), potentially causing the caulk to crack in places?

Yes. I was suggesting it isn't caulked.

This is your call, and depends on your preference and taste. 

With my alcove units, all with slightly bevelled edges (on doors and frames), I purposefully just butted the panels to the adjacent walls, and these have the same wee bevels where they meet the flat walls. I didn't want the units to blend it and look like part of the wall - I wanted them to look like bespoke built-in units in their own right. And, my units are a different colour to the walls!

However, if you are looking for a smooth blend of the wall continuing in to the unit front, and they will be painted the same shade, then - yes - you'll need a solid fix and caulk.

Personally, I'd scribe the panels, make them fit neatly, and then bevel - no caulk. 

If you decide to go 'caulk', then how to fix solidly? I guess either screws and fill their heads (yuck, and you'd need to know where they are for removal), or a few dabs of adhesive (probably more sensible in this case) - they prise off for disassembly. Yes, slightly destructive, but not excessively so, and damage all hidden. The gap down the sides is too narrow to get a 'driver down there to screw from behind "MATRO..."). 

Your call.

 

paperclap

Think I’ll think of it when I come to it!

But more importantly, what of the carcasses? Why would you opt to glue over not gluing?