physical card readers

friolento

eskbanker said:

friolento said:

km1500 said:

I suppose another way looking at it is that it is a very secure method - much more secure for example than sending a text with numbers in it

not as secure as biometric authentication, which is now increasingly used by many banks. Card readers are very easy to come by, and any thief who has my debit card and PIN can log into my Nationwide account, set up new payees and make payments.

I'd suggest that any thief who has obtained someone else's debit card and PIN wouldn't go to the trouble of accessing an online account and would just be heading swiftly for the nearest ATM before the loss/theft was reported, so any security weakness with card readers would be moot in this scenario....

You need more imagination. ATM withdrawals might suit the fraudster for smallish withdrawals. Online payments are possible for up to £100k per day. People might have substantial amounts in their Nationwide accounts. Unless these are fixed term accounts, they can all be emptied via a Nationwide current account.

alibean121

Katiehound said:

[Deleted User] said:

Katiehound said:

You can log onto Nationwide with either a card reader OR a OTP
I personally prefer the card reader.

Barclays & HSBC had card readers- I no longer have those accounts
Bank of Ireland use something similar- not exactly a card reader but a small device.

HSBC don't use card Readers and never have as far as I know. 

Apologies, no HSBC had a very very fiddly secure key- a lot worse than a card reader.
 M&S also had a small fiddly thing and when  I requested something larger   they sent me a machine that had clear buttons but that also spoke!

I guess the difference on HSBC is that, while you can still opt to get the stupid calculator thing if you choose, you can also choose to have digital secure key in a mobile app instead. I have HSBC as my long-term bank and haven't had one of those calculators in over a decade.

Nationwide are a specific pain in the neck. I had a mortgage and savings there before I ever had a current account and, as soon as I opened the current account, suddenly I couldn't do various things online anymore without having the card on me.

Section62

friolento said:

eskbanker said:

friolento said:

km1500 said:

I suppose another way looking at it is that it is a very secure method - much more secure for example than sending a text with numbers in it

not as secure as biometric authentication, which is now increasingly used by many banks. Card readers are very easy to come by, and any thief who has my debit card and PIN can log into my Nationwide account, set up new payees and make payments.

I'd suggest that any thief who has obtained someone else's debit card and PIN wouldn't go to the trouble of accessing an online account and would just be heading swiftly for the nearest ATM before the loss/theft was reported, so any security weakness with card readers would be moot in this scenario....

You need more imagination. ATM withdrawals might suit the fraudster for smallish withdrawals. Online payments are possible for up to £100k per day. People might have substantial amounts in their Nationwide accounts. Unless these are fixed term accounts, they can all be emptied via a Nationwide current account.

For £100k there are plenty of criminals who would invite you to use your fingerprint to unlock your device or else...  so to some extent this discussion is moot.

Online transactions are a possible way to deplete a victim's accounts, but need 'infrastructure' to get the money to a place where the fraudster can benefit without the risk of being caught.  Obviously they can't just transfer it into their own bank account.

Taking the card and PIN to a cash machine is an easy way to obtain difficult-to-trace cash, or use the card and PIN to buy valuable items until the card gets blocked.

An opportunist is likely to go the easy route of getting a limited amount of funds in the lowest risk way.  Someone specifically after your £100k+ probably won't be defeated by you politely declining to use your biometrics to give them access to it.

The bottom line is the cardreader is only vulnerable to fraud if the criminal has the card PIN.  So someone wanting to keep their cash protected - as well as having the sensible option of employing multiple accounts with different providers - only need protect their PIN.

I use Nationwide for my hub account and is where larger transfers between banks are routed.  As a result my NW debit card doesn't leave my house, and nobody will see me using my PIN in a public place.  My NW accounts are only vulnerable if a fraudster demands I enter my PIN in my cardreader... or else... but in the gamut of 'bad things which could happen', that isn't one I lose sleep over.

If people are sensible (and not a mafia target), then the difference in security with biometrics vs PIN is (for practical purposes) not enough to be the cause of so much debate.  Both have some advantages, both have some disadvantages.

hoc

Nationwide frequently require it even when using the app. When setting up a new payee, paying someone I haven't paid in a few months I get asked for the reader even if using the app.

friolento

hoc said:

Nationwide frequently require it even when using the app. When setting up a new payee, paying someone I haven't paid in a few months I get asked for the reader even if using the app.

This is one of the reasons I don't use Nationwide as my main current account any longer. I need to be able to make payments, and set up new payees, when I am away from home, and I don't carry the card reader with me. In fact, I rarely carry any debit card with me, either. There's a range of other current accounts which suit me a lot better for day-to-day banking.

housebuyer143

tiger135 said:

do i still need card readers? 
i use nationwide and they still require it for bacs payments.
do other banks still require these devices? 

I was very pleased to see NatWest got rid of them last month 😀😀 so much easier to add payees without having to dig that card reader out 

badmemory

At least the card reader doesn't appear to be dependent on a non-existent mobile phone signal.  I have learnt never to try to do something with halifax at new year as it can take a text almost 12 hours to get through.  You would think I lived in the back of beyond - I don't.

tiger135

So I am glad I asked this question, I like nationwide but I'd like to get rid of the card readers.
Who would you recommend switching to?

Katiehound

tiger135 said:

So I am glad I asked this question, I like nationwide but I'd like to get rid of the card readers.
Who would you recommend switching to?

Someone who is going to give you a golden handshake, so that might limit your choices!

brianposter

[Deleted User] said:

HSBC don't use card Readers and never have as far as I know. 

That is why I find my HSBC account pretty useless for online transactions.