The other parent demands access and equal decision making in respect of Junior ISA / SIPP accounts

Sea_Shell

"so he has written now to the custodian (of ISA/SIPP accounts) to freeze all activity on accounts until the court decision is made (or at least he told me so, "putting me on notice") and applied to the family court for a specific issue order on this matter - i.e. for investments to be chosen by a joint decision of parents only"

If he "wins" and decisions then have to be made jointly, how does that help anyone?

He can't change the investments, and neither can you, unless you both agree. 

So he won't be able to implement his "vision" of what should happen to the funds, as surely they would remain "as is", even if stuck.   That wouldn't stop either of you adding money, but it would end up in cash limbo, if you don't agree on an investment choice.

Can each child have more than one ISA account for new money (ie for each tax year), like adults can?   If so, what's to stop you opening another "secret" one, in April 24, with a different provider? 😉

Assuming any successful court order would be applied to a specific account(s).

greengrizzly

Sea_Shell said:

"so he has written now to the custodian (of ISA/SIPP accounts) to freeze all activity on accounts until the court decision is made (or at least he told me so, "putting me on notice") and applied to the family court for a specific issue order on this matter - i.e. for investments to be chosen by a joint decision of parents only"

If he "wins" and decisions then have to be made jointly, how does that help anyone?

He can't change the investments, and neither can you, unless you both agree. 

So he won't be able to implement his "vision" of what should happen to the funds, as surely they would remain "as is", even if stuck.   That wouldn't stop either of you adding money, but it would end up in cash limbo, if you don't agree on an investment choice.

Can each child have more than one ISA account for new money (ie for each tax year), like adults can?   If so, what's to stop you opening another "secret" one, in April 24, with a different provider? 😉

Assuming any successful court order would be applied to a specific account(s).

If the past is anything to go by, he will just try to wear me down by refusing to agree to anything at all until I come begging and concede to his point of view. It is his way or no way, has always been like that. 

He doesn't even know what my current investment choices are, but is already convinced that they are wrong and are not in the children's best interests, just because I am dumb. Well, that is more a personal rather than financial aspect, of course, but just to illustrate that you are right - it will be a deadlock situation, unless I give up.

The children can have only one ISA of each kind (Stocks and Cash), so it is not like adults. Can have multiple SIPPs. The solicitor told me that I will likely need to disclose all assets owned in children's names to the court, also things like shares in the companies and any real estate (they have none, but I will most likely have to make a sworn statement to the judge).

greengrizzly

Keep_pedalling said:

Wow! I am surprised it has got this far.

You  sound like a pretty clued up person, so if it comes to it consider representing yourself in court. Do some research on this there are quite a few websites that provide advice on this and there are some organisations that can help and there are professional McKenzie Friends who can assist if you help.

https://www.legalchoices.org.uk/types-of-lawyers/other-lawyers/mckenzie-friends

Thank you! Yes, I think if it actually gets to the hearing, I think I will represent myself. The solicitor I spoke to was very, very eager to take it on and she didn't have an immediate prognosis for the outcome, as she said there is very little to none case law on situations like this. But then, I think solicitors just smell blood (and fees) in cases that sound like high parental conflict.

Sea_Shell

I know it means forgoing any government uplift, but would your circumstances* allow you to save up for them in your own name and then gift the money once they reach 18?

At the end of the day, what's best for the children.   Leaving these accounts in limbo, and continue adding to them, or making alternative arrangements.

Any other "assets" that you could buy for them now, which they can make use of in the future (storage required 😉)

Some "outside the box" thinking might be required.



*Taking into account other considerations of tax, estate planning, benefits, own relationships etc.

Keep_pedalling

Sea_Shell said:

I know it means forgoing any government uplift, but would your circumstances* allow you to save up for them in your own name and then gift the money once they reach 18?

At the end of the day, what's best for the children.   Leaving these accounts in limbo, and continue adding to them, or making alternative arrangements.

Any other "assets" that you could buy for them now, which they can make use of in the future (storage required 😉)

Some "outside the box" thinking might be required.



*Taking into account other considerations of tax, estate planning, benefits, own relationships etc.

In the case of ISAs children take control once they reach 16. In the OPs situation I would certainly be setting aside any more money for them in my own name until this is resolved or until they are 16 and then top up the ISAs. 

Sea_Shell

Keep_pedalling said:

Sea_Shell said:

I know it means forgoing any government uplift, but would your circumstances* allow you to save up for them in your own name and then gift the money once they reach 18?

At the end of the day, what's best for the children.   Leaving these accounts in limbo, and continue adding to them, or making alternative arrangements.

Any other "assets" that you could buy for them now, which they can make use of in the future (storage required 😉)

Some "outside the box" thinking might be required.



*Taking into account other considerations of tax, estate planning, benefits, own relationships etc.

In the case of ISAs children take control once they reach 16. In the OPs situation I would certainly be setting aside any more money for them in my own name until this is resolved or until they are 16 and then top up the ISAs. 

The risk of them being "scammed" out of their savings at 16, by having parental pressure applied to them shouldn't be underestimated. ☹️.  They'll need to keep their wits about them.

They could end up feeling like they have to choose a path for their money, and by default, choose which parent to trust with helping make decisions about what to do with their money.

16 is quite young to be able to access £15k +

greengrizzly

Sea_Shell said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Sea_Shell said:

I know it means forgoing any government uplift, but would your circumstances* allow you to save up for them in your own name and then gift the money once they reach 18?

At the end of the day, what's best for the children.   Leaving these accounts in limbo, and continue adding to them, or making alternative arrangements.

Any other "assets" that you could buy for them now, which they can make use of in the future (storage required 😉)

Some "outside the box" thinking might be required.



*Taking into account other considerations of tax, estate planning, benefits, own relationships etc.

In the case of ISAs children take control once they reach 16. In the OPs situation I would certainly be setting aside any more money for them in my own name until this is resolved or until they are 16 and then top up the ISAs. 

The risk of them being "scammed" out of their savings at 16, by having parental pressure applied to them shouldn't be underestimated. ☹️.  They'll need to keep their wits about them.

They could end up feeling like they have to choose a path for their money, and by default, choose which parent to trust with helping make decisions about what to do with their money.

16 is quite young to be able to access £15k +

They can make investment decisions at 16, but cannot withdraw until they are 18. But I agree with you, it is still quite young, that's why I treat this as effectively a "gap year fund" money, not the main saving vehicle.

silvercar

Sea_Shell said:

"so he has written now to the custodian (of ISA/SIPP accounts) to freeze all activity on accounts until the court decision is made (or at least he told me so, "putting me on notice") and applied to the family court for a specific issue order on this matter - i.e. for investments to be chosen by a joint decision of parents only"

If he "wins" and decisions then have to be made jointly, how does that help anyone?

He can't change the investments, and neither can you, unless you both agree. 

So he won't be able to implement his "vision" of what should happen to the funds, as surely they would remain "as is", even if stuck.   That wouldn't stop either of you adding money, but it would end up in cash limbo, if you don't agree on an investment choice.

Can each child have more than one ISA account for new money (ie for each tax year), like adults can?   If so, what's to stop you opening another "secret" one, in April 24, with a different provider? 😉

Assuming any successful court order would be applied to a specific account(s).

It means that he has knowledge of how much money there is. What he will do with that information is anyone's guess, but it could mean that a request for assistance to go to uni could be met with the response that the ISA could be used.

Spendless

Unless the kids live with their Dad at the point they go to Uni, his income won't be taken into account for student loans anyway and he could refuse a request asking for additional help for HE studies with or without any ISAs as could the resident parent though that makes it very awkward if the student gets a loan under the maximum loan amount,   due to the household income and then refuses to contribute and the student can't manage even if they're able to find a p-time job on top. .

OP - By the solicitors own admission there's little to no case law on it, so either no-one has tried or got very far. I'd just get your ducks in a row with it, read the ts and cs, make a log of what money has been received and when and who from. If your ex wants to play silly devils paying for solicitors to take this to court let him. Even if he wins his argument then just stop contributing to it and do as others have suggested but if there's also a fair whack in already, I'd make sure the kids knew at age 16/17 what had happened, so when they can access at 18 they know to make sure the money they can access is for them as intended.  

silvercar

Spendless said:

Unless the kids live with their Dad at the point they go to Uni, his income won't be taken into account for student loans anyway and he could refuse a request asking for additional help for HE studies with or without any ISAs as could the resident parent though that makes it very awkward if the student gets a loan under the maximum loan amount,   due to the household income and then refuses to contribute and the student can't manage even if they're able to find a p-time job on top. .

Not disagreeing with any of this, but if he didn’t know about the savings he may feel more obliged to contribute to his daughters education. Legally he doesn’t have to, but as you say there is a moral obligation