Pension Credit - when to notify of 'excess' savings

scottleag

I can do that easily enough and overpayments caused by the DWP not acting promptly upon information received isn't a great problem but it's 'sort out the new payments' that's the issue. For a start there are four disregards dropping off from early December to late January so that's four sets of 'new' payments then after that there's the distinct possibility that savings will rise. I really don't want to end up having to send in bank statements every month or so.

scottleag

Sorry to keep coming back to this but I see from another thread @Spoonie_Turtle and @Newcad you both say cost of living payments are disregarded for an indeterminate period for Universal Credit. Does the same apply to Pension Credit? If not then please disregard - for want of a better term - the following queries.

If they do apply to pension credit are they cumulative? That all such payments can be added to the £10K savings rule for pension credit before any PC deductions are made? We've been in receipt of these since they started and before my wife reached pension age and we still receive them. I received a text this morning advising of £300 payment to be made between Oct 31st-Nov 17th. My calculations are we received £324 cost of living payment last year (we also received the £326 first payment but that was before we started getting pension credit) and by the time I intend to report changes will have received £600 of the £900 payable in 2023-24

Does the disregard also apply to benefits like the disabled persons payment and the winter fuel allowance? We received £300 disabled persons payment this year (2x£150). I also received £150 last year but I think before my wife was diagnosed and before we started on pension credit.

We also received an additional £300 in winter fuel payment (it was originally meant to be £200 but was increased to £500) and have received notice of same again this coming winter. 

Ignoring payments made before we became eligible for pension credit that's £1,824 in total for all 'extra' benfits (£1,864 if both this year's and last year's Xmas bonus payments are disregarded) or £924 if only cost of living payments are disregarded. Or £600 if only this financial year's cost of living payments are eligible. 

This could make a big difference and mean either I don't have to inform the DWP of 'excess' savings until the fourth and final disregard expires in January or maybe not at all. It would certainly take away all the hassle and worry of having to write to them four times inside seven weeks (including one two days before Xmas and therefore unlikely to be seen by them until early January). 

Spoonie_Turtle

Yes the disregard applies to Pension Credit as well as all other means-tested benefits.  
There cost of living payments - £300-odds, £150s, Winter Fuel Payment (which includes the pensioner CoL), any £25 Cold Weather Payments, and the random £150 Council Tax rebate last year if you got that as a payment into your bank.

What won't be disregarded is if your energy supplier last winter paid the £66/67 amounts into your bank account instead of lowering your Detect Debit amount (or charging a lower amount if you paid on receipt of bill).

You would have to have a look at your bank accounts and determine whether you spent any of the CoL payments, perhaps before your wife was diagnosed and received any extra money/backpay, to work out whether they should all not count or only some. 
Or to put it another way, if at the time you were already building up savings and these were just extra on top, then it would be reasonable to disregard every CoL payment received after that.


If it were me and the cumulative CoL payment disregard meant my accounted-for savings were under threshold, I would still write to tell them, once, after the other disregard periods have expired because it will look like you have over the threshold when they do any checks, so then you'll have told them and they'll already know how much of your savings should be taken into account.

scottleag

That's tremendous news, thank you very much. The Winter Fuel Payment is actually £500 (and I think was the same last year too) as it's £300 on top of existing scheduled payments. Yes, I didn't think the energy payments would be included as IIRC these weren't means tested and went every energy account holder. I think we got a council tax rebate but possibly before we became eligible for pension credit. I'll need to check that. 

I'll go through all relevant payments received from the start of receiving pension credit (I mean date it was back paid to, my wife's 66th birthday) rather than diagnosis which was a few months earlier. 

I agree it would be sensible to write to the DWP at the end of the final disregard with full financial details and specifically pointing out when the still-extant disregarded payments were received. But at least now it's highly unlikely I'll have to write before then which is a huge weight off my mind. Impossible to tell right now if we'll be under or over the 'new' limit but if we were over it it's highly unlikely it would be before that final - or should I say final TIME-LIMITED - disregard expires. 

scottleag

Coming back to this nearly seven weeks on. I appreciate all the advice given wrt disregards. Having run what I think are exhaustive searches the only information I can find concerning cost of living payments relates to UC and ESA. I can't find any mention in either government documents or advice websites about state pension. I've tried contacting Age Concern but their advice line takes a maximum of two callers on hold at any given time and needless to say is impossible to get through to.

Is there any official site anywhere that could verify the advice here about unlimited disregards? I stress I'm not questioning the accuracy of the advice, just wanting to know how to get it confirmed officially.

My worry is that if these disregards don't apply to state pension then we are going to go above the savings limit when our second disregard drops off next week. I'd hoped this wouldn't happen until after the final disregard fell away in late January but it will definitely apply from a week tomorrow. 

So I'm not sure if I should write to the DWP now rather than wait until the final one drops off in just over a month's time.

As always, any advice appreciated. 

Spoonie_Turtle

Well, here's the legislation for the original CoL payments

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2022/38/section/8/enacted

8 Payments to be disregarded for the purposes of tax and social security

No account is to be taken of an additional payment in considering a person’s—

…

(b)entitlement to benefit under an enactment relating to social security (irrespective of the name or nature of the benefit),

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/cost-of-living-payment

"These payments are not taxable and will not affect the benefits or tax credits you get."

(Easily missed though as it's in between two bolded sections near the beginning)  Same wording on the 2022 guidance, limited at the bottom of that page.

https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/how-much-youll-get

"Any money you get is tax-free and will not affect your other benefits."

https://www.gov.uk/cold-weather-payment

"The payments do not affect your other benefits."

scottleag

That's absolutely marvellous. Thank you ever so much.

scottleag

Okay, so I wrote to the Pension Service on Dec 18th outlining exact dates for the expiry of the four twelve months disregards and including all 'one-off' payments received, with dates of receipt, alongside links provided by @Spoonie_Turtle. I gave the totals for everything disregarded and also for the period after the end of the time-limited disregards, i.e. the standard £10,000 plus payments received and disregarded without limit. I included copies of bank balances (including current account) as of that day. I informed them that it was possible we would be over the savings limit come the end of the time-limited disregards though if we were this would depend on how much of the current account they regarded as capital (assuming the current account was at or around the same as in my letter). Actual savings would still be under the 'new' limit as established by including the unlimited disregards though over the basic £10,000 after expiry of the last twelve months disregard.

I hope that makes sense.

I said this letter should be regarded as notification of a POSSIBLE change of circumstances and asked for advice on reporting changes in the future should our savings grow.

Today saw the expiry of the final time-limited disregard and by coincidence receipt of a letter from the Pension Service. However, rather than being a reply to me this was simply a letter notifying me of the increase in pension credit from April 12th this year. There was nothing included to indicate how this sum was calculated. The amount to be paid from April 12th represents an increase of 5.3%. This is less than the 8.5% state pension increase and 6.7% rise in PIP. Whether this is a standard rise or particular to our circumstances I do not know. 

I'm unsure as to how to proceed. Do I assume I will eventually get a response to my letter of December 18th? Or should I start to get embroiled in telephone conversations with all the hassle of waiting to get through and (usually) finding the person at the other end isn't qualified enough to deal with the call? Do I simply think, 'well, I've notified you of everything you need to know, the ball's in your court?'

Yet again any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'd hoped (and thought) this would either be resolved by now or at least I would know how to proceed in future.

HillStreetBlues

I certainly wouldn't be calling, as with your situation it's akin to banging your head against the wall.
Have you calculated what you believe your payment should be currently?

scottleag

Yes, the figure they will pay from Apr 12th is just 2p per week less than I'd calculated. I'm not going to argue about that. It's just annoying they won't answer three basic questions.

1 Does the savings limit include the one-off payments as the DWP's own website appears to suggest?

2 How much in the current account is NOT counted as capital?

3 How and when do I advise them of changes if/when capital goes above the limit?

At the moment we are above the £10K but below the limit if including one-off payments. As we're just about to take a long-awaited ten days away, spending on accommodation, meals, transport etc. means that's likely to remain the case for some time. Though at some point in the future I expect we'll go above the 'new' limit though precisely when I can't say. If for any reason they exclude one-offs from capital then we should have our pension credit reduced by £5 per week from January 25th onwards. That's my main concern. 

On reflection I agree about calling. I've told them in advance of the disregard expiry dates and have taken screenshots of bank statements both then and on Feb 1st and will continue doing so on the 1st of each month until this is eventually clarified.

if it ever is.