Hive Hub, “reached end of life”!

matt_drummer

superjuz said:

Of course everything has to be funded, no one is denying that, but there are ways and means that would seem less unreasonable, for example, Ads on the app (and paying to remove), subscription costs for new / additional features, a bump on cost of hardware for new costumers, etc. 

with regards to, “it was in the original T&c’s” I doubt a single person ever made it that far when scanning over them at time of purchase. It’s just not practical (deliberately) to read and take on board every detail. I can’t imagine anyone ever thought the system would be remotely rendered useless in x years time. 

As I said before, it’s not about the money, it’s the principle, to the point I’d rather, at this moment, rip the whole lot out and pay £200 for a Nest system than give BG another 30 quid… 

If you do that I would read the terms and conditions of the NEST system as they may well do the same thing.

Your system isn't useless, you just can't control it from your telephone.

I'm sure it is annoying but it hasn't stopped your heating system working or rendered it uncontrollable.

I am sympathetic.

However, I do feel that topics like these need some balance and a representation of other points of view.

I have technologies where I rely on apps that I would miss, but I am realistic and don't expect them to last forever free of future charges.

No business can survive like that.

superjuz

I do appreciate the balance of opinions 🙏

matt_drummer

Maybe part of their thinking is that your hardware is already old.

Making a charge to access an app to control an old piece of hardware could be seen as undesirable by some.

Basically charging you for future access but `giving' you the latest hardware isn't such a bad compromise?

They could have charged a similar amount over time and left you with a bit of a technological dinosaur?

rp1974

Understandable being somewhat aggrieved at Hive,I bought the Wiser knowing that the hardware,software or both could be unsupported and or made obsolete at any time,such is the way of things in modern technology,the obsolescence built in from the outset.
I can't remember the last time I even used the app for Wiser,apart from initial setup it's gone about it's business,largely untouched for a few years,fitted and forgotten effectively,wont suit everyone though.
If as per OP,I wanted non local control and general tinkering available at a whim,from where so ever then I'd consider a half price new hub a pretty good deal,tbh.
There's alternatives available should they be required though hardly money saving really is it?,depends how much a price is put on being "principled",I suppose.

mmmmikey

Doesn't this all just come down to "reasonableness"? If I bought something and one of the key functions plastered all over the box completely stopped working after a year or so I'd be outraged, and like the OP would probably ditch it as a matter of principle. But if, after 10 years and plenty of notice the same thing happened I'd probably just shrug my shoulders and buy a replacement.

matt_drummer

mmmmikey said:

Doesn't this all just come down to "reasonableness"? If I bought something and one of the key functions plastered all over the box completely stopped working after a year or so I'd be outraged, and like the OP would probably ditch it as a matter of principle. But if, after 10 years and plenty of notice the same thing happened I'd probably just shrug my shoulders and buy a replacement.

Actually, they are offering the latest version at a 50% discount, they don't even want full price.

It's not such a bad deal when you step back and think about it.

The notice about the apps lifespan was actually given on purchase, albeit somewhere in the terms and conditions.

jrawle

I always assume companies providing smart thermostats generate revenue by collecting data on usage and selling this or using it to their advantage. Hive is part of British Gas, so it's clear how having detailed usage data can be of use to them.

In general, I don't like the way all these smart services rely on cloud infrastructure on a company's servers. As posters have pointed out, this costs them money to run. You are entirely at their mercy. They can decide to stop providing it whenever they choose and there is nothing you can do. The product (or at least the smart features) becomes useless. A similar thing happened with many internet-enabled radios. The cloud service providing the listings ceased, so they no longer could stream internet stations.

What I would prefer is smart tech I could connect to the old-fashioned way, by connecting remotely to it on my home network. That way, it would not be reliant on any external service. An app on your phone could talk directly to your thermostat, so doesn't need anyone else's servers. I actually found a solution for the internet radio sets that does just that. You can run a server on a local PC (or Raspberry Pi) that the radio thinks is the online service, and restores the functionality for free, forever. (Look up YCast if you are interested.) In theory, it could be possible to hack a Hive thermostat in a similar way, as it doesn't require making changes to the device itself, just intercepting the messages it sends out and replying to them. I don't know whether anyone has reverse-engineered Hive in this way, and as I don't have Hive myself, am not going to spend much time investigating it, but it's worth looking into for anyone with Hive and some technical know-how.

FreeBear

jrawle said: In general, I don't like the way all these smart services rely on cloud infrastructure on a company's servers. As posters have pointed out, this costs them money to run. You are entirely at their mercy. They can decide to stop providing it whenever they choose and there is nothing you can do. The product (or at least the smart features) becomes useless.

Pretty much the same thinking here. If the internet goes down, or the company goes bust, anything relying on a remote server is stuffed. I also have issues allowing companies to monitor & record what I do (be it heating, temperatures, or what time I turn lights on/off). Also resent being held hostage to the endless software updates and hardware upgrades...

Fortunately, there are alternatives to Hive/Nest/Tado et al. I repurposed a Raspberry Pi a few years back and installed Home Assistant on it. The little box of tricks controls heating, hot water, and also switches some of the lights on/off at set times of the day. It has helped to save a bit on gas consumption and paid for itself that way. Also has a built in web server, so I can control the system using any phone, tablet, or computer.

mmmmikey

Another Home Assistant fan here, albeit a very recent convert. It takes a bit of getting your head around and setting up but once you've got started it's a fantastically powerful bit of kit.

There are certainly Hive integrations available although I haven't looked at them. Perhaps this is a way forward for the OP?

As well as removing the costs and lags associated with using online web services to control smart devices it's great to be able to see and control everything from one robust, stable app. 

Bendo

mmmmikey said:

Another Home Assistant fan here, albeit a very recent convert. It takes a bit of getting your head around and setting up but once you've got started it's a fantastically powerful bit of kit.

There are certainly Hive integrations available although I haven't looked at them. Perhaps this is a way forward for the OP?

As well as removing the costs and lags associated with using online web services to control smart devices it's great to be able to see and control everything from one robust, stable app. 

The Hive integration relies on the hub as its all cloud based so that won't help.

Hive is pretty rubbish as a system,   but using Home assistant can work around those limitations.