Damages by gardener

RefluentBeans

I think there’s a larger debate about self-employment and employment of a small number of hours. Say a gardener was found on an app specific for garden work. You say you want a regular gardener for 3 hours every other week for the months of March - October.

Who actually employs the worker? You haven’t gone through an agency, so not an agency. The app will make provisions to not consider their gardeners employees and rather freelance (e.g. like Uber). My gut says they’re going to be freelancers who should be self-employed. 

There is also a difference between an employee and a worker. Workers have less rights than employees, but importantly they still have the right to safe working conditions. I would imagine that the gardener would be classed as a worker, not employee. By not following building codes, and not informing them of adequate risks in the garden (either verbally or via means of a risk assessment) the homeowner has put workers at risk. 

Also this whole argument is moot if it’s through an agency!

ComicGeek

Forget about the whole employee, contractor or visitor argument.

You ask someone to cut your grass, don't tell them about a known risk that might actually kill them, and then actually have the nerve to complain that they aren't going to pay to repair it - that's another level!

You should be thankful that no one was killed or seriously injured, and learn from it.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Alderbank said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Money_Grabber13579 said:

I’m not sure it is completely inaccurate. I have employer’s liability insurance on my own household policy and my insurance company told me that it was to cover for any claims made by people I’d engaged to work on my property.

This link also summarises the different types of liability insurance and specifically mentions a cleaner as a circumstance in which employers liability insurance would be required. That wouldn’t be a standard employer/employee relationship either and I don’t see why a gardener would be any different.

https://help.quotemehappy.com/home-insurance/my-cover/what-is-occupier-s-personal-and-employer-s-liability-insurance/#:~:text=Liability%20cover%20is%20insurance%20which,employer%20of%20a%20domestic%20employee.

Always happy to be corrected but, I doubt you have employer’s liability insurance, it is a legal requirement for any employer to have employer’s liability insurance with fines of up to £2500 per day that you don't have cover, your home insurance offering cover for your liability to someone you "employ" to work on your land/property is likely different, the term "employ" could be substituted for any number of words in this situation. 

There isn't a suggestion of there being no liability at all rather that the liability that does exist between a homeowner and tradesperson doesn't meet the high standards of liability that exists between employers and employees under employment law, as Bris inferred. 

Don't fall into the trap, as many do, of thinking along the lines of 'Mrs Mopp only does two hours a week on Thursdays, surely she can't be my employee'.

She can and probably is. There’s no single rule that determines whether or not a home help (which can include a nanny or gardener too) is self-employed or your employee. It all boils down to the terms and conditions of your arrangement. If they work set hours each week, use your bucket or your lawnmower, you tell them what to do and how you want it done then you are their employer and carry the full burden of employers' responsibilities (right to work in UK, minimum wage, unfair dismissal, redundancy, employer's liability insurance, etc.)

The only sure way to avoid it is either to hire them through an agency or make absolutely sure they meet HMRC's rules for self-employment (bring their own bucket, etc.)

I know there's been a lot of questions over who is an employee with the likes of Uber, HMRC says generally if the person is going through an agency or is self employed then they aren't an employee.

A quick Google suggests one test is whether another can do the job so if you sprain your ankle your can't send someone else to do your shift in McDonald's but if the gardener has someone else to fill in for them and sends them instead the homeowner is unlikely to be an employer. 

pinkshoes

I don't think the OP got the answers they were hoping for so probably not coming back... 

GingerTim

pinkshoes said:

I don't think the OP got the answers they were hoping for so probably not coming back... 

And realised that they were very fortunate to have not fried the gardener...

Aylesbury_Duck

pinkshoes said:

I don't think the OP got the answers they were hoping for so probably not coming back... 

Or their internet's off because the 60ft ethernet cable they strung through the bushes has been severed by a hedgetrimmer and there are zeroes and ones all over the place.