Energy Supplier

dealyboy

@Gerry1 said:

ChoppersPatch said:

Gerry1 said:

Seems that your 'Thermal Radiators' are just panel heaters that use day rate electricity, so it's just about the most expensive heating you can possibly have.

Have you done the sums to see whether Economy 7 works out more expensive overall than single rate?

The radiators are fine and we now have control of when we require heating. 

Oh dear...

IMHO it was huge mistake to get rid of storage heaters.

You'd also have control of your heating if you burned £20 notes in the fireplace.  That's the only thing more expensive than running panel heaters on the daytime Economy 7 rate, which will be even more expensive than the single rate.

Not trying to point a finger, just warning anyone else against thinking that shiny new panel heaters are better than boring old storage heaters.

It's true that High Heat Retention NSHs can be cheaper to run than the plain old Box of Bricks ones, but the payback time can be lengthy especially if you're at home during the day.

With old NSHs, the best plan is often just to do the Storage Heater Sanity Test and to spend a tenner or two if any elements have failed.

Sound advice as ever Gerry.

Gerry1

dealyboy said:

@Gerry1 said:

ChoppersPatch said:

Gerry1 said:

Seems that your 'Thermal Radiators' are just panel heaters that use day rate electricity, so it's just about the most expensive heating you can possibly have.

Have you done the sums to see whether Economy 7 works out more expensive overall than single rate?

The radiators are fine and we now have control of when we require heating. 

Oh dear...

IMHO it was huge mistake to get rid of storage heaters.

You'd also have control of your heating if you burned £20 notes in the fireplace.  That's the only thing more expensive than running panel heaters on the daytime Economy 7 rate, which will be even more expensive than the single rate.

Not trying to point a finger, just warning anyone else against thinking that shiny new panel heaters are better than boring old storage heaters.

It's true that High Heat Retention NSHs can be cheaper to run than the plain old Box of Bricks ones, but the payback time can be lengthy especially if you're at home during the day.

With old NSHs, the best plan is often just to do the Storage Heater Sanity Test and to spend a tenner or two if any elements have failed.

Sound advice as ever Gerry.

It's quite easy - your brain sends me Notifications of what you're thinking... (See 3:48pm.and 3:49pm) 🧠

QrizB

Gerry1 said:

ChoppersPatch said:

Gerry1 said:

Seems that your 'Thermal Radiators' are just panel heaters that use day rate electricity, so it's just about the most expensive heating you can possibly have.

Have you done the sums to see whether Economy 7 works out more expensive overall than single rate?

The radiators are fine and we now have control of when we require heating. 

Oh dear...

IMHO it was huge mistake to get rid of storage heaters.

You'd also have control of your heating if you burned £20 notes in the fireplace.  That's the only thing more expensive than running panel heaters on the daytime Economy 7 rate, which will be even more expensive than the single rate.

Not trying to point a finger, just warning anyone else against thinking that shiny new panel heaters are better than boring old storage heaters.

Is this a good time to share the link to my calculations?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78557202/#Comment_78557202

At the July cap, in my region, the comparative costs for 10MWh of heat were:

Gas: £1142/yr

E7 NSH: £1535/yr

Single-rate panel heaters: £3030/yr

E7 daytime rate panel heaters: £3870/yr.

Alnat1

QrizB said:

Is this a good time to share the link to my calculations?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78557202/#Comment_78557202

At the July cap, in my region, the comparative costs for 10MWh of heat were:

Gas: £1142/yr

E7 NSH: £1535/yr

Single-rate panel heaters: £3030/yr

E7 daytime rate panel heaters: £3870/yr.

Ouch, that will hurt

GingerTim

QrizB said:

Gerry1 said:

ChoppersPatch said:

Gerry1 said:

Seems that your 'Thermal Radiators' are just panel heaters that use day rate electricity, so it's just about the most expensive heating you can possibly have.

Have you done the sums to see whether Economy 7 works out more expensive overall than single rate?

The radiators are fine and we now have control of when we require heating. 

Oh dear...

IMHO it was huge mistake to get rid of storage heaters.

You'd also have control of your heating if you burned £20 notes in the fireplace.  That's the only thing more expensive than running panel heaters on the daytime Economy 7 rate, which will be even more expensive than the single rate.

Not trying to point a finger, just warning anyone else against thinking that shiny new panel heaters are better than boring old storage heaters.

Is this a good time to share the link to my calculations?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78557202/#Comment_78557202

At the July cap, in my region, the comparative costs for 10MWh of heat were:

Gas: £1142/yr

E7 NSH: £1535/yr

Single-rate panel heaters: £3030/yr

E7 daytime rate panel heaters: £3870/yr.

Wow. 

Before I bought my flat I was choosing between this oen, and one where the previous owner had pulled out the storage heaters and installed panel heaters. Never been more grateful I ran a mile from the second one!

rp1974

Gerry1 said:

IMHO it was huge mistake to get rid of storage heaters.

You'd also have control of your heating if you burned £20 notes in the fireplace.  That's the only thing more expensive than running panel heaters on the daytime Economy 7 rate, which will be even more expensive than the single rate.

Not trying to point a finger, just warning anyone else against thinking that shiny new panel heaters are better than boring old storage heaters.

With old NSHs, the best plan is often just to do the Storage Heater Sanity Test and to spend a tenner or two if any elements have failed.

Agree 100% with this,I simply can't fathom why people keep making this disastrous decision given the vast amount of discussion here,and elsewhere that concludes that doing so is a monumentally bad idea in almost every way imaginable.
Once the mistakes been made through there's only damage limitation and the forlorn hope that others learn from the misfortune and avoid doing the same.
Bar not checking what sort of heating is in a property before moving into it,or buying it,it's probably the unwisest move conceivable.

QrizB

rp1974 said:

Agree 100% with this,I simply can't fathom why people keep making this disastrous decision

It's not even as though the purchase price is all that much different.

Using one retailer for all prices:

• ATC iLifestyle 1kW panel heater - £403
• Creda TSRE 1kW storage heater - £513
• Dimplex XLE 1kW storage heater - £726
• Dimplex Quantum 1kW HHR storage heater - £741
  

If we assume that each of those heaters will be used to deliver 1000kWh of heat in a year, at July's capped prices the panel heater will cost £303 to run on single-rate electricity and the storage heaters will cost £154 on overnight E7. That's an extra £151 a year. In one year you've spent more on electricity than you've saved vs. the Creda, and in two and a bit years you've blown through the savings on either Dimplex.

Gerry1

ChoppersPatch said:

A problem with our meters transposing, first reported in 2021 and still not resolved. So many people involved. Lots of talk (Love and Power) but no action. Sheer frustration.

Do you mean that the low rate meter is incrementing during the day, and vice versa?

If so, fixing that could land you with a bad case of Bill Shock if your day and evening panel heater kWh consumption exceeds that from the relatively brief usage by the immersion and underfloor heaters. 

Even worse if applied retrospectively...

QrizB

Gerry1 said:

Do you mean that the low rate meter is incrementing during the day, and vice versa?

If so, fixing that could land you with a bad case of Bill Shock if your day and evening panel heater kWh consumption exceeds that from the relatively brief usage by the immersion and underfloor heaters.

Good spot!

@ChoppersPatch if you are still reading this thread could you share your disputed meter readings with us?

Gerry1 could be correct; if you are using more daytime electricity than nighttime, reverse billing will be to your advantage.

Alnat1

QrizB said:

Gerry1 said:

Do you mean that the low rate meter is incrementing during the day, and vice versa?

If so, fixing that could land you with a bad case of Bill Shock if your day and evening panel heater kWh consumption exceeds that from the relatively brief usage by the immersion and underfloor heaters.

Good spot!

@ChoppersPatch if you are still reading this thread could you share your disputed meter readings with us?

Gerry1 could be correct; if you are using more daytime electricity than nighttime, reverse billing will be to your advantage.

If they didn't realise that panel heaters used so much electricity, they probably thought that more units would be used overnight for heating the tank. When the bill showed many more used in the day they assumed the figures were transposed. They will possibly now realise that the bill is actually correct.