Charges for connecting to "maritime" networks without consent - how do they get away with this?

Bricks

PHK said:

I don't understand this . Data roaming was turned on so that you would automatically connect outside the UK. But when it did connect you were surprised.

In your situation I would have wondered how I had a connection when I wasn't in the UK or Ireland.

I did wonder. As soon as a realised what was happening, I turned it off. It was too late because the charges for data are so expensive that background activity on my mobile had already reached my spending cap. What first alerted me was a text from my operator telling me I'd reached that cap.

Data roaming was turned on because I was approaching Ireland, and I had already checked out the situation with data roaming there and how much it would cost.

I was unaware of the fact that there were super-expensive satellite networks at sea that a phone would connect to. It seems that people here think I should just know that by osmosis, but I don't think it's a reasonable thing to expect consumers to be aware of.

It would be reasonable to expect consumers to read up on out-of-UK roaming on their provider's website. Here's the relevant part of my provider's website:

https://www.three.co.uk/support/roaming-and-international

Perhaps you can tell me where I'd find the relevant information there. All of the discussion is based on what the costs will be according to what country you're in. I cannot see anywhere an explanation of the fact that when you are at sea travelling between two countries, there are other types of networks that your phone might connect to. And I certainly can't see the costs laid out either.

Bricks

[deleted - trying to find the actual document that relates to my price plan]

Wonka_2

Bricks said:

Perhaps someone, who thinks I should have known about this prior to setting off, can tell me where in my network's price guide I should have found the information, even if I had read it cover to cover?

https://www.three.co.uk/content/dam/threedigital/terms-and-conditions/price-guides/historical-price-guides/new-payg-priceguide-09-12-2021.pdf

Maybe because all of the info relates to countries. The incessant need for people to be connected has led to offshore/inflight availability and the cost/profit opportunity that it generates.

As users we were lulled into a false reality with EU roaming charges and there are no longer guarantees of low cost/inclusion post Brexit but the maritime one was always an issue with many ferries giving announcements/signage highlighting the non-inclusion of these services in network subscriptions.

It's not their responsibility to do it - your agreement covers UK onshore and, depending on contract some EU onshore but not satellite based networks.

Not sure whether spoon-feeding is the solution or whether people have unrealistic expectations but there will always be those that are caught unawares. If you feel suitably aggrieved then try a complaint to 3 that they don't differentiate between onshore and satellite based providers but not sure where it'll get you.

DullGreyGuy

Bricks said:

DullGreyGuy said:

I'd suggest using the tools you already have is a much more sensible approach than trying to create a multinational agreement on a new way of mobiles to work to give a prompt to accept if the charge is going to be above ¥ per minute/GB/Txt

Does my provider (3 UK as it happens) not have the ability to set things up so that my SIM will not connect to certain networks abroad?

Why would we need a "multinational agreement"?

Because you said you wanted to be prompted if to accept the cost or not which means that needs development in the phones software to create the ability to find out the costs and then prompt to accept or reject it. 

To be able to get such a prompt your phone would need to be able to contact your network provider to find out how much its going to cost per second/gb/txt as clearly these things vary massively between different companies/contracts etc but you aren't on your network at this time and so the non-resident network has to agree to carry this traffic for free. Similarly each network would have to agree to provide a response to the phone's request in a uniform way as Apple/ Google etc wont want to have to support hundreds of different mobile phone operators providing it in different ways. You then have to agree if it's a trigger set by users, the network or its global and how you balance different rates, for example Marshal Islands are cheaper for calls, more expensive for texts and the same price for data on O2 as the Maritime network so should they give a warning because the calls aren't over £2/min or should they because texts are 66p?

Hence you need lots of companies in different countries to come up with a standards, agreements and allow small data calls to travel for free. Its doable because networks already agreed to do the free text to say your roaming and how much it will cost however that required much less agreement because text message standards already existed so was just an agreement on costs (in some countries you get charged for receiving texts not just sending them)

If you forgo the prompt and want to be able to set a blanket ban on any calls over £1.50 a minute or data over £1 a MB by calling your network or using their app etc before you leave home then that would work but you then have no mechanism to change that when your travelling companion falls serious ill whilst abroad in a place above your set max charge. For most of us there are circumstances where we bite the bullet, turn roaming on and grease up for the bill to come when something serious happens. 

Bricks

Ok. This, I think, is the correct document for my plan

https://www.three.co.uk/content/dam/threedigital/terms-and-conditions/price-guides/historical-price-guides/advancedplans-priceguide-post-1oct2021-01-10-21.pdf

So, yes it's in there, on page 24.

It's not on the three website general info on roaming (which I'd say is what's reasonable to expect people to check) but it's in a price plan, buried on a difficult to find page that it took me some time to get to. And if I'd managed to read that cover to cover I'd have seen that if I connect to a "maritime network" they'll charge me £6 per MB.

I'd have had to realise that if I'm on a ferry between the UK and Ireland, I'm not "in a go roam destination". Who knows how far from the shore I have to get before I'm not "in" a destination.

I'd have had to know that my phone would automatically connect to one of these special networks.

But I maintain that this is really a scam, because of the cost. Who would actually choose to use a service charged at £6 per MB? That's easily the size of a single webpage these days. Ferries offer onboard wifi. The only people who use this "service" will be doing so inadvertantly. It's there to catch people out.

I'll certainly be complaining to 3, anyway.

PHK

I don't agree. I've always checked before I go and read what the transport company says. 

I think it's obvious that if you have a signal and you are not in either your destination or departure country then it must be provided by the company whose boat/plane/train you are on. 

Bricks

PHK said:

I don't agree. I've always checked before I go and read what the transport company says. 

I think it's obvious that if you have a signal and you are not in either your destination or departure country then it must be provided by the company whose boat/plane/train you are on. 

What counts as "in" your destination or departure country?

But the point is, the data charges are such that in the time it takes you to look at your phone screen, and notice you have a signal, they've already started charging you.

Neil_Jones

Bricks said:

PHK said:

I don't agree. I've always checked before I go and read what the transport company says. 

I think it's obvious that if you have a signal and you are not in either your destination or departure country then it must be provided by the company whose boat/plane/train you are on. 

What counts as "in" your destination or departure country?

But the point is, the data charges are such that in the time it takes you to look at your phone screen, and notice you have a signal, they've already started charging you.

It's simple.

If you don't want to be charged for data if you're in a hybrid situation (such as a ship in the middle of the Irish sea) then make sure data is off before you get on the ship.It's usually one slide and a tap and can be done as you're boarding.

If you're that fussed about what you're complaining about you'd have taken steps beforehand to avoid the issue; the fact you didn't and am now passing comment on it after the event says it all I feel.

lohr500

I do think it is a nasty trap to fall into, especially for people who have roaming plans where they are travelling from one roaming area to another across the water.

Not all travellers are savvy to ferry/cruise satellite communication services. 

If it isn't possible for the networks to flag up the potential costs associated with connecting to marine services, then should there be some responsibility on the ferry/cruise operators to put up clear signage/announcements advising passengers of the higher costs associated with roaming whilst onboard? As it stands, I suspect it probably isn't in their interest to do so as presumably they make a bob or two out of providing the service.  

Fortunately we are savvy enough to set a zero spend cap on all the mobiles in our family to avoid any unpleasant surprises, but I suspect many others are not.

Bricks

Neil_Jones said:

If you're that fussed about what you're complaining about you'd have taken steps beforehand to avoid the issue; the fact you didn't and am now passing comment on it after the event says it all I feel.

It's not that hard to understand the difference between "not fussed" and "not aware", is it?