Government consultation on Work Capability Assessment LCW/LCWRA

Muttleythefrog

The government has started a consultation to change the criteria for the Work Capability Assessment (WCA) to make it more difficult to get classified for ESA/Universal Credit with LCWRA and to some degree also LCW. These proposed changes precede a later intent (announced earlier in the year) to remove the WCA entirely and rely on a PIP award to determine disablement in relation to work.

They are looking for responses and here is the link to details.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/work-capability-assessment-activities-and-descriptors/work-capability-assessment-activities-and-descriptors

It would be helpful if Admin allow this (post) to enable disabled members of MSE and their representatives or relatives to know about the proposed changes and consultation so that they can be involved in the process. Clearly many would be affected.

Editing to add: caution - some members may be emotionally/mentally impacted by the contents of the link as it discusses changes to benefit rules including for some of those who will have significant disablements or serious illnesses. 

Spoonie_Turtle

Just a small warning for others - only read this when you're prepared, mentally and emotionally.  I wasn't, and now feel sick to the bottom of my stomach, incandescent with rage, and am on the verge of tears.

The consultation is important but only engage when you can handle it.  I am desperately hoping the charities will mobilise like they have for the rail ticket office closure proposition.

(Note to mods: I don't plan to comment any further on this unless it's about clarification of the actual process, I don't want my comment to get the thread closed.)

Muttleythefrog

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Just a small warning for others - only read this when you're prepared, mentally and emotionally.  I wasn't, and now feel sick to the bottom of my stomach, incandescent with rage, and am on the verge of tears.

The consultation is important but only engage when you can handle it.  I am desperately hoping the charities will mobilise like they have for the rail ticket office closure proposition.

(Note to mods: I don't plan to comment any further on this unless it's about clarification of the actual process, I don't want my comment to get the thread closed.)

Yes I knew it was coming this week and pretty much guessed correctly what may be proposed based on what was being leaked. Seeing those leaks had left me pretty anxious about what was to come.

If it makes you feel better (or at least stop you feeling worse still) there is an important line in the government link which points out that due to the legislative requirement changes won't take place until the earliest 2025. I would then draw your attention to something that will happen at the latest January 2025 - a general election. The distraction of that could be significant and implementation ultimately would seemingly have to take place under a new government (which I will for the purposes of the thread not offer any prediction of suffice to say there's plenty data and analysis out there on the matter) that may or may not be supportive of any changes that do begin their journey through parliament following the consultation.

I imagine disability charities and Welfare advisors will significantly provide input. 

arnoldy

With 5 million (soon to be 7 million on disability benefits at current trajectory) we do need a national debate about the whole area. If 1 in 7 of working age are disabled, and there are 1 pensioner to every 2.5 working age its pretty tough on the working population. Time for a rational, data driven, unemotional and kind debate about the whole thing. 

Muttleythefrog

arnoldy said:

With 5 million (soon to be 7 million on disability benefits at current trajectory) we do need a national debate about the whole area. If 1 in 7 of working age are disabled, and there are 1 pensioner to every 2.5 working age its pretty tough on the working population. Time for a rational, data driven, unemotional and kind debate about the whole thing. 

Just to clarify... for avoidance of doubt.. the consultation is specifically for changes to criteria for the Work Capability Assessment (which applies to ESA and Universal Credit). The government is committed to abolishing the Work Capability Assessment (WCA) with future reform announced earlier in the year but that would take place in several years time after these consultation changes could be implemented. According to the link "There are 2.4 million claimants in either the Universal Credit LCWRA or ESA Support Group, compared with 450,000 claimants within the Universal Credit Limited Capability for Work (LCW) or ESA Work-Related Activity Group" so the proposed changes would affect a subsection of this 2.85 million claimants. Some of these 2.85 million claimants do some work such as through permitted work.

Disability benefit... largely Personal Independence Payment (PIP) but also DLA will not be affected by these proposed changes although there is the element of considering the changes in light of the idea that the government intends to use PIP to determine entitlement to additional payments regarding Universal Credit/ESA when the WCA is abolished (for example they're consulting on aligning criteria for ability to mobilise to deal with the idea there will be only one test for disabled/sick people in future).  Note PIP is not an out of work benefit - many getting 'disability benefits' do work. 

On your last point... in theory yes great...hence me posting the thread to try to get feedback to the government consultation which would only be a small element of such wider issues you raise. But of course these changes being consulted on involve people with significant disablement or serious health problems and indeed many of them sufficient to be considered to be at severe risk (or present to others same) if to engage in work related activities or indeed with other people (hence the consultation also is to consider how the risks would be managed). 

Indie_Kid

arnoldy said:

With 5 million (soon to be 7 million on disability benefits at current trajectory) we do need a national debate about the whole area. If 1 in 7 of working age are disabled, and there are 1 pensioner to every 2.5 working age its pretty tough on the working population. Time for a rational, data driven, unemotional and kind debate about the whole thing. 

Maybe we should get the waiting lists for treatment sorted (I was referred for stuff in February 2022 and not heard a peep) before trying to force people to get back to work?

MouldyOldDough

I could never figure out why they needed to carry out an assessment for ESA and a separate DLA/PIP assessment

it is as if they are classing disability differently in two identical circumstances ?

Surely - if someone is classed as disabled enough to need their income topping up through DLA/PIP - They are going to struggle to find meaningful paid employment ?

and here we go

"22. The Health and Disability White Paper explained our plans to legislate for the removal of the Work Capability Assessment. In future there will only be one health and disability functional assessment – the Personal Independence Payment (PIP) assessment. This remains our intention. However, with around 740,000 WCAs taking place in 2022, and with this demand expected to continue, we cannot wait until these reforms roll out. We are consulting on making changes ahead of the White Paper reforms. Given the PIP assessment will be the only assessment used, we are also considering where the WCA can be changed to mirror the PIP assessment criteria."

Muttleythefrog

MouldyOldDough said:

I could never figure out why they needed to carry out an assessment for ESA and a separate DLA/PIP assessment

it is as if they are classing disability differently in two identical circumstances ?

Surely - if someone is classed as disabled enough to need their income topping up through DLA/PIP - They are going to struggle to find meaningful paid employment ?

and here we go

"22. The Health and Disability White Paper explained our plans to legislate for the removal of the Work Capability Assessment. In future there will only be one health and disability functional assessment – the Personal Independence Payment (PIP) assessment. This remains our intention. However, with around 740,000 WCAs taking place in 2022, and with this demand expected to continue, we cannot wait until these reforms roll out. We are consulting on making changes ahead of the White Paper reforms. Given the PIP assessment will be the only assessment used, we are also considering where the WCA can be changed to mirror the PIP assessment criteria."

Just quickly...
There would be the argument that they assess different things - PIP (or DLA - note which is quite a different animal itself to PIP which replaces it) looks at disability in day to day life while the WCA (of ESA and Universal Credit) looks at limitations in ability to work. There's definite overlap and the consultation in part looks at closer alignment of criteria given future plans to move to the PIP only assessment. There's also significant overlap in claimants but not completely and significantly more people get disability benefit than out of work benefit due to illness/disability. Many receiving PIP do work - some use PIP payments to enable work such as through buying equipment or transport.

Because the assessments for PIP and ESA/U-C are similar methodologically and in format albeit different and somewhat overlapping in consideration there had for some time been governmental thoughts of moving to an environment of having the assessments (where applicable) carried out at the same time by same assessor (to improve efficiencies and reduce stress on claimants primarily) - that now seems less likely to happen given the plan to remove one assessment.

The consultation proposals look to changing the criteria (at earliest 2025 given parliamentary processes) likely years before the changes including removal of the WCA detailed in point 22. Otherwise the consultation does state the motivations for the changes to criteria, including significantly the changes in working environments since previous changes, of an assessment that is later intended to be abolished. I'll leave people to draw their own conclusions as to the authenticity of those claimed motivations or the potential existence of unstated ones. Also caveat to all of this that of course governments and their plans can change. A General Election is likely before any of the consulted (or discussed) changes.

born_again

Would agree with the above. Having taken Mrs through both the below.
PIP criteria & LCWRA are totally different questions.

Yes. PIP could be a cover all. Just they would need to make it far quicker than it is now.
Unless they simply want to say. You have got PIP, then you automatically fall in the higher categories. As a means to save staffing costs on the other assessments.

gbhxu

I did used my PIP assessment as medical evidence at my last ESA tribunal.

Having been granted lower rate PIP mobility for not being able to walk more than 50 metres. I used this combined with a statement on my ESA assessment of not being able to moblize a manual wheelchair due to poor upper body strength.

This resulted in a tribunal lasting no more than 5 minutes with the result that I had been put into the Support Group. 15 minutes later I was walking out the court with the documentation supporting the decision.

Perhaps then, those of claimants still in the ESA Support Group or in Universal Credit LCWRA should get the equivalent of a full time job  rather than the equivalent of a part-time job we get today?

FYI 18 years after having to stop work due to ill health, ESA is not paying what I was earning before I stopped work!

Muttleythefrog

gbhxu said:

I did used my PIP assessment as medical evidence at my last ESA tribunal.

Having been granted lower rate PIP mobility for not being able to walk more than 50 metres. I used this combined with a statement on my ESA assessment of not being able to moblize a manual wheelchair due to poor upper body strength.

This resulted in a tribunal lasting no more than 5 minutes with the result that I had been put into the Support Group. 15 minutes later I was walking out the court with the documentation supporting the decision.

Perhaps then, those of claimants still in the ESA Support Group or in Universal Credit LCWRA should get the equivalent of a full time job  rather than the equivalent of a part-time job we get today?

FYI 18 years after having to stop work due to ill health, ESA is not paying what I was earning before I stopped work!

Yes... I have used reports for the WCA and PIP interchangeably and with success as they're often referred to in the new report generated and elements used to justify opinion. 

But reminder for those visiting the page that this consultation is specifically about changes to the WCA criteria to make it more difficult to be classified with LCWRA and to some degree also LCW. While there is in the consultation some motivation described that at least one of the changes consulted on is to more closely align criteria of WCA and PIP these changes to the WCA (if they ever happen) would be expected to pre-date by some years the elimination of the WCA and use of PIP award/assessment to determine any benchmarks of disability for the purposes of work (regarding Universal Credit and ESA).