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Faulty iPhone Consumer Rights

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  • TELLIT01 said:
    I can't help with the problem, but would be interested to know what Apple's definition of 'water resistant' is.
    Indeed. A phone with an IP68 rating should be capable of being dunked in a swimming pool or having a power washer turned on it. I’d be surprised if an iPhone was designed to withstand that.
    Northern Ireland club member No 382 :j
  • DullGreyGuy
    DullGreyGuy Posts: 18,613 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    TELLIT01 said:
    I can't help with the problem, but would be interested to know what Apple's definition of 'water resistant' is.
    Indeed. A phone with an IP68 rating should be capable of being dunked in a swimming pool or having a power washer turned on it. I’d be surprised if an iPhone was designed to withstand that.
    Its not like they have come up with their own language but are using the international standard as defined in IEC60529 

    They rate the phone as IP68 when fresh out the box. The first number (6) is for resistance to dust which they've given it the maximum score saying there is no ingress of dust after 8 hours of exposure. The second number is for water (8) which is the third highest rating saying no ingress at a depth of 1m or greater (1m is the minimum but manufactures can say deeper)

    Being able to resist a power washer is level 9 and therefore not what Apple claims its iPhones can do. 9K is being able to resist high pressure steam of at least 80C temps

    Naturally resistance may reduce over time, especially if you have repairs done which may not use the correct procedures or materials to ensure the resistance is maintained.
  • jon81uk
    jon81uk Posts: 3,882 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    If you are claiming on the John Lewis guarantee go and speak to them first. Otherwise everything else is just speculation about what they might do.
  • Gavin83
    Gavin83 Posts: 8,757 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    TELLIT01 said:
    I can't help with the problem, but would be interested to know what Apple's definition of 'water resistant' is.
    Indeed. A phone with an IP68 rating should be capable of being dunked in a swimming pool or having a power washer turned on it. I’d be surprised if an iPhone was designed to withstand that.
    I've dropped my iPhone in the bath before and it seemed to cope with that just fine. Can't say I've ever turned a pressure washer on it though! Never had any repairs of any sort on it though which I appreciate could reduce the integrity of the unit.

    My iPhone is 4 years old now though, will be getting a new phone next month!
  • Update everyone...

    Thank you for your input, it is greatly appreciated. 
    Just to clarify, the phone is original and in brand new condition with a very healthy battery and zero scratches or marks, it has never been looked at by anyone so it certainly should not be going wrong with it being not that old.
    The two year John Lewis warranty sadly ran out around seven months ago.

    I did contact John Lewis and informed them that the phone has stopped working and it was an expensive purchase, this was the response I got:

    Thank you for contacting us regarding your Apple iPhone 12 Pro Max; it is disheartening to learn that the mobile has stopped working and I appreciate the inconvenience as we all rely so heavily on them.
     
    As you may be aware, when the phone was purchased in January 2021, it came with a two year parts and labour service guarantee. Whilst the guarantee is a year longer that Apple offer, this guarantee has now ended.
     
    Additionally, John Lewis do not have our own engineers and rely on sending items to Apple certified engineers. In the circumstances, we are unable to consider a repair, refund or replacement. A suitably qualified engineer will be able to assess the mobile and quote for the cost of the chargeable repair.
     
    I appreciate that this is not the news you wished to hear. Should you have any questions or need clarification please do not hesitate to contact us on the number at the bottom of this email, quoting your reference number, and one of my colleagues will be able to assist.

    It is really disappointing to hear that they are not interested but also quite worrying to read from some of your posts that a proper technical report might cost as much as the phone. Why is everything so difficult these days? You take care of your product and this happens but there seems to be little recourse unless you stump up a considerable amount of money. No wonder people scuff and drop their phones all the time. I am starting to re-consider my habits in life! 

    I have done further investigation on this matter and can see that several iPhone 12 Pro Max owners like me have had the same issue. The problem seems to be with the ear piece (where you put your ear to listen to a caller). Over time, this area deteriorates to a point where it allows water in. The area that gets wet here affects the phone booting up (like mine), the screen brightness (like mine) and the Facial ID stops working (like mine).
    Again, the water indicator on the phone is showing no water damage. 
    I am quite sure if I take it to Apple, much like someone posted here, Apple will give you a generic report saying it needs a new logic board or camera but will not go into detail to explain the root cause, particularly if their product has failed to do what it is meant to do i.e. it has let water in despite being marketed as 'water resistent' and the proprietary water indicator inside of the phone is indicating no water damage. 
    What an absolute headache this is. 
  • Okell
    Okell Posts: 2,644 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    That reply from JL only addresses the two year warranty and doesn't touch upon any rights you might have under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk)

    Did you not put it to them that a consumer would reasonably expect an iPhone costing £nnn to be of such quality and durability as to last longer than 2 years 7 months? 
  • Okell said:
    That reply from JL only addresses the two year warranty and doesn't touch upon any rights you might have under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk)

    Did you not put it to them that a consumer would reasonably expect an iPhone costing £nnn to be of such quality and durability as to last longer than 2 years 7 months? 
    Thanks for your post. No, I wanted to initially just make contact and inform them that the device failed on Monday but didn't give any further info at that stage, just wanted to make them aware of the issue, I then created this thread so I could be best informed so that when they replied back to me, I would be in a better position to respond to them. 

    Your post is exactly what I was after really, I can go back and state that under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, I would reasonabily expect that a device of this price would last at least 4-5 years before requiring any attention/parts/replacement. 

    But judging from some of the above posts, I am not sure if it is even worth it as no doubt, the retailer will come back to me asking for an engineer report. 
  • DullGreyGuy
    DullGreyGuy Posts: 18,613 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    Okell said:
    That reply from JL only addresses the two year warranty and doesn't touch upon any rights you might have under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk)

    Did you not put it to them that a consumer would reasonably expect an iPhone costing £nnn to be of such quality and durability as to last longer than 2 years 7 months? 
    Thanks for your post. No, I wanted to initially just make contact and inform them that the device failed on Monday but didn't give any further info at that stage, just wanted to make them aware of the issue, I then created this thread so I could be best informed so that when they replied back to me, I would be in a better position to respond to them. 

    Your post is exactly what I was after really, I can go back and state that under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, I would reasonabily expect that a device of this price would last at least 4-5 years before requiring any attention/parts/replacement. 

    But judging from some of the above posts, I am not sure if it is even worth it as no doubt, the retailer will come back to me asking for an engineer report. 
    It's presumably worth the cost of an email to point out that you aren't asking them to deal with it under the warranty but under your statutory rights from the Consumer Rights Act. 

    I was fortunate, to a degree, in that my JL product was a Freezer from a matching fridge and freezer pair. Samsung did visit and confirm a fault with its logic board and said it was unrepairable. Thankfully its unlikely that I dropped a freezer or did something silly like take it in the bath with me (dont think its got an IP rating) and so less need to prove the board didn't die due to user error/misuse. 

    I had to get to the executive Complaints team at JL before they accepted their obligations on the freezer and offered a refund based on a straight 72 month depreciation but as the model was no longer made or stocked by anyone we couldn't come to an agreement on either the matching fridge that was bought in the same transaction nor the food that was spoiled each time the freezer heated itself up to 24C (they claimed the CRA excluded damaged food and only covered damaged kitchen units but refused to say which clause they were relying on). We eventually put a claim into the small claims court and their outsourced law firm immediately offered a settlement. 
  • Gavin83
    Gavin83 Posts: 8,757 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Okell said:
    That reply from JL only addresses the two year warranty and doesn't touch upon any rights you might have under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk)

    Did you not put it to them that a consumer would reasonably expect an iPhone costing £nnn to be of such quality and durability as to last longer than 2 years 7 months? 
    But judging from some of the above posts, I am not sure if it is even worth it as no doubt, the retailer will come back to me asking for an engineer report. 
    Well get yourself an engineers report. It'll set you back about £70ish but if the fault is inherent JL will refund you for this. If you're confident you've done nothing wrong and it's the fault of the phone then it seems the obvious route to take.

    It's probably worth running it by JL first but expect them to ask for the report, as is their right.
  • TELLIT01 said:
    I can't help with the problem, but would be interested to know what Apple's definition of 'water resistant' is.
    Indeed. A phone with an IP68 rating should be capable of being dunked in a swimming pool or having a power washer turned on it. I’d be surprised if an iPhone was designed to withstand that.


    Being able to resist a power washer is level 9 and therefore not what Apple claims its iPhones can do. 9K is being able to resist high pressure steam of at least 80C temps
    Powerful jets of water is level 6… Level 9 is high temperature and pressure water jets - not many power washers are capable of that.
    Northern Ireland club member No 382 :j
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