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Faulty iPhone Consumer Rights

I purchased an expensive Apple iPhone from a well known retailer 2 years and seven months ago.
The product came with a two year garuntee. Obviously, it is now seven months past that period.

Yesterday, it stopped working. It is in pristine condition, has never been manhandled or damaged and all original.
I have done some extensive digging online and it looks like it may have water damage. It has never been submursed in water though from what I am reading, it would seem that even a few spots of rain can cause this issue as with age, apparently the water tightness around the earpiece on this device can fail particularly if it has ever over-heated. The device was marketed as 'water resistent' IP68.

My question is, how likely is it that the retailer will consider looking at the device or repairing/replacing it with the consumer rights act in mind?
The total cost for this product was £1099.00. I do not think that two years and seven months is an acceptable amount of time for a product to last until it goes catastrophically wrong, particularly given it's pristine condition. Things don't last forever, but I really do not think that for the cost of this product, it should already be completely un-usable.

I understand from some online websites that there is a slot on the side of the phone which has a water contact identifier. It is some kind of material that goes red if it gets wet. I am going to try and get one of the small pins that opens this slot to check but I would be very surprised to see any indication of water damage as it has never been near water.

I would be most grateful of any suggestions or ideas on what I can do in this sitituation. I am yet to contact the retailer as the phone failed whilst I was away and I had no way of contacting anyone.
Thanks in advance.
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Comments

  • born_again
    born_again Posts: 18,372 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Fifth Anniversary Name Dropper
    After 6 months you need a written independent report of the problem. So in this case best to go to apple. But do not expect them to say it has a inherent fault.

    I would not do anything to look inside case, it will not help & could make it worse when report states case has been opened.

    Can we take it, that it was bought from JL?
    Life in the slow lane
  • DullGreyGuy
    DullGreyGuy Posts: 15,640 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    It depends who this "well known retailer" is... some will help you a lot as long as their engineer confirms its a fault not user damage or acceptable wear whereas others you will have to fight every step of the way.

    Under the Consumer Rights Act after 6 months it's up to the consumer to prove that its a faulty item rather than user damage or acceptable wear (or end of reasonable lifespan). This is typically done by commissioning an engineer's report into the cause of the problem, the cost to fix and their expert opinion on the aforementioned questions. Assuming the report does support your argument then the cost of it can be added to your claim, obviously if they disagree with you and say you've clearly misused it or such then its your own cost to cover. 

    Also note that once an item is over 6 months old then any refund given by the retailer can be reduced to reflect the use you had from the item before the fault developed. If it is JL for example they would give you 41/72ths of the price assuming you are still in the 31st month of ownership if you are able to prove the item faulty.
  • Hello both, yes it is JL @born_again. A few years back, I purchased a £12.99 bathroom towel from them. I had just moved house. I never got round to getting it out of the packet and when I did, there was thread hanging out which went all through the towel. A manufacturing defect I guess. JL refused to deal with the matter as it had been 35 days since I purchased. I was astonished at how they quibbled and found it really petty so I am expecting a similar experience but obviously this time, it isn't a towel, it is a very expensive piece of technology.

    I have done some digging and found the water contact indicator, it is in the sim tray so you don't need to pull the phone appart. The indicator is not indicating so it has not had water damage but that isn't to say maybe somewhere else it has picked up moisture. 

    I am more than happy to take the item to Apple, but I expect they will not own up to there being a defect. 
    What sort of independent engineers are there? I would be happy to go to one and get a report.
    Either way, I have contacted the retailer today to make them aware that I have an issue but I have not said anything further at this stage as I was wondering if it might be best for me to get someone independent to look at it first as they can confirm in writing it has not been damaged by water, it is pristine with very good battery health etc, all things that will work in my favour in terms of how little it has been used and how it is still worth a lot - had I have sold it on. 

    Thanks for your help on this. 
  • TELLIT01
    TELLIT01 Posts: 17,484 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper PPI Party Pooper
    I can't help with the problem, but would be interested to know what Apple's definition of 'water resistant' is.
  • Hello both, yes it is JL @born_again. A few years back, I purchased a £12.99 bathroom towel from them. I had just moved house. I never got round to getting it out of the packet and when I did, there was thread hanging out which went all through the towel. A manufacturing defect I guess. JL refused to deal with the matter as it had been 35 days since I purchased. I was astonished at how they quibbled and found it really petty so I am expecting a similar experience but obviously this time, it isn't a towel, it is a very expensive piece of technology.

    I have done some digging and found the water contact indicator, it is in the sim tray so you don't need to pull the phone appart. The indicator is not indicating so it has not had water damage but that isn't to say maybe somewhere else it has picked up moisture. 

    I am more than happy to take the item to Apple, but I expect they will not own up to there being a defect. 
    What sort of independent engineers are there? I would be happy to go to one and get a report.
    Either way, I have contacted the retailer today to make them aware that I have an issue but I have not said anything further at this stage as I was wondering if it might be best for me to get someone independent to look at it first as they can confirm in writing it has not been damaged by water, it is pristine with very good battery health etc, all things that will work in my favour in terms of how little it has been used and how it is still worth a lot - had I have sold it on. 

    Thanks for your help on this. 

    Any local phone repair shop.
  • I have always found Apple to be very helpful, I’d suggest you make an appointment at an Apple Store and take it there. 
  • If it's water-damaged any issue is pretty much assumed to be your own issue. I think it depends what the issue is with the device in all honesty. The issue is after 6 months, the onus is on you to prove the fault was there at purchase. Apple will never admit to that - but they'll likely tell you that 'if you bought it from us we'd do X, Y and Z' which means nothing as they aren't being held to that!

    Go back to John Lewis, and ask them for technical advice with it. If you take it back it a third party repair store, they may give you an indication it was there on purchase, but JL will undoubtedly question their qualifications. Apple will never give you an engineers report or even admit it was faulty from the factory. 

    The contact indicator in the sim tray is a good indicator, but if any of the pads inside are set off then JL will likely reject the claim. 

    What is the device fault? Have you spoken to JL/Apple already to see if it's an easy remedy. That should be your first step. 
  • DullGreyGuy
    DullGreyGuy Posts: 15,640 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    I am more than happy to take the item to Apple, but I expect they will not own up to there being a defect. 
    What sort of independent engineers are there? I would be happy to go to one and get a report.
    Either way, I have contacted the retailer today to make them aware that I have an issue but I have not said anything further at this stage as I was wondering if it might be best for me to get someone independent to look at it first as they can confirm in writing it has not been damaged by water, it is pristine with very good battery health etc, all things that will work in my favour in terms of how little it has been used and how it is still worth a lot - had I have sold it on. 
    And this is the challenge often in enforcing your rights. Most phone repair shops are totally unqualified, their report doesn't need to say it "wasnt water damage" but needs to say what the cause (eg failure of STMicroelectronics STB601A05 power management chip caused by poor/dry soldering during manufacture, failure after 31 months is unreasonable). The market for reports is very well developed when it comes to certain things like motor vehicles but very limited in other product types. 

    How much it's worth to sell on is equally irrelevant, the law says the deduction is made on use. In principle in some circumstances residual values may be more than than the value less use. There are guidances that use should be personalised rather than assuming everyone with a TV uses it for 4 hours a day but it may be hard for you to prove your use was much lighter than normal just as it can be hard for the retailer to prove your use is much higher than normal.
  • MikeJXE
    MikeJXE Posts: 3,793 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    Your first port of call should be Apple Store Genius Bar, they are the best of the best in my opinion, make an appointment and then let them test it, if they say it's water damage then it's water damage. 

    From then on it's your choice where to go next 
  • I am more than happy to take the item to Apple, but I expect they will not own up to there being a defect. 
    What sort of independent engineers are there? I would be happy to go to one and get a report.
    Either way, I have contacted the retailer today to make them aware that I have an issue but I have not said anything further at this stage as I was wondering if it might be best for me to get someone independent to look at it first as they can confirm in writing it has not been damaged by water, it is pristine with very good battery health etc, all things that will work in my favour in terms of how little it has been used and how it is still worth a lot - had I have sold it on. 
    And this is the challenge often in enforcing your rights. Most phone repair shops are totally unqualified, their report doesn't need to say it "wasnt water damage" but needs to say what the cause (eg failure of STMicroelectronics STB601A05 power management chip caused by poor/dry soldering during manufacture, failure after 31 months is unreasonable). The market for reports is very well developed when it comes to certain things like motor vehicles but very limited in other product types. 

    How much it's worth to sell on is equally irrelevant, the law says the deduction is made on use. In principle in some circumstances residual values may be more than than the value less use. There are guidances that use should be personalised rather than assuming everyone with a TV uses it for 4 hours a day but it may be hard for you to prove your use was much lighter than normal just as it can be hard for the retailer to prove your use is much higher than normal.
    100% this - Apple also won’t identify the specific issue - rather it’ll be either a logic board issue, battery issue, screen issue, or charging port issue. That’s as in depth as they’ll go. A logic board issue may be under the CRA, but equally may not be. 

    An actual technical repair will cost nearly as much as a new phone so probably not worth it, especially as it’s not clear this is an inherent fault, so risk not being able to get JL to pay for it. 

    Personally I’d take it to JL ask what they can do either as a repair or replacement, then get a quote from Apple. If both too expensive there’s a few third party repair shops that can do repairs on iPhones, but depends on what the issue is. 
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