Does working effect PIP?

Charles_Foxtrot

Spoonie_Turtle said

Supported permitted work is something more specialist and like you I have no idea how one would go about finding any.  (Is it what Remploy used to be?  Does supported PW even exist any more, or is reference to it a holdover like the £20 lower earnings threshold in the guidance?)

Yes, “supported permitted work” is something very specific and it involves a lot of paperwork from the DWP and your employer. The employer must be in some way approved to supervise you, as a disabled person, in your work. The most detailed info I could find from the government is here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1148680/permitted_work_factsheet_PW1_04_23.pdf

if one, like myself, wants to start working a bit on contribution based ESA, it must be under the rules of “supported permitted work”. 

It just seems like a chicken and egg scenario as I contacted my council for info on how they could support me to work under this scheme, and they told me to talk to the DWP about it, then the DWP told me to talk to my job centre, and then my job centre told me to talk to my council. 

Spoonie_Turtle

Charles_Foxtrot said:

Spoonie_Turtle said

Supported permitted work is something more specialist and like you I have no idea how one would go about finding any.  (Is it what Remploy used to be?  Does supported PW even exist any more, or is reference to it a holdover like the £20 lower earnings threshold in the guidance?)

Yes, “supported permitted work” is something very specific and it involves a lot of paperwork from the DWP and your employer. The employer must be in some way approved to supervise you, as a disabled person, in your work. The most detailed info I could find from the government is here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1148680/permitted_work_factsheet_PW1_04_23.pdf

if one, like myself, wants to start working a bit on contribution based ESA, it must be under the rules of “supported permitted work”. 

No that's not correct.  You can do any job you want as long as it's below the thresholds and you tell them about it.  That's simply called permitted work, no need to do the supported type.  Edit: supported PW is a subtype of PW.

Charles_Foxtrot

Spoonie_Turtle said:

No that's not correct.  You can do any job you want as long as it's below the thresholds and you tell them about it.  That's simply called permitted work, no need to do the supported type.  Edit: supported PW is a subtype of PW.

According to the guidance in the link I posted and what I’ve been told, it is correct. It specifically says in the form I posted:

”Supported permitted work is for people with a disability, illness or health condition who cannot work for more than a few hours each week. The work is supervised by a professional support worker. A professional support worker is someone who works for a public or voluntary organisation.“

and

“Your professional support worker must complete this section. A professional support worker is someone who works for a public body or voluntary organisation and organises work for people with disabilities, illnesses or health conditions. The support worker must provide ongoing and regular support and supervision over the work you are telling us about.”

my ESA award letter states I can only engage in “supported permitted work” according to these guidelines. I cannot just get any job under 16 hours per week and under the income threshold. The form on that link has the specifics as well as on the DWP website about this.

Spoonie_Turtle

I have no idea why your ESA letter would say that. May I ask what the exact wording is, and what's either side of it?  I'm interested to know the context.

Supported permitted work is an option, it is evidently limited to certain people but shouldn't be an arbitrary limitation imposed upon people.  In the list of 'you can … ' on that factsheet it is one option, distinct from general PW.

Charles_Foxtrot

Lol crap . I have remembered things wrong. I found the scan from my initial award letter years ago and it doesn’t talk about “supported permitted work”. 

I must have found out about all that via gov.uk, CAB, etc at the time. Most recently, around months ago a charity that has been helping me was digging around to how to about it. As I can’t just work any job - the point of my contribution ESA is that it is paying me because I can’t work.

The whole thing about "supported permitted work" I posted the gov.uk form before. More info here: 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/employment-and-support-allowance-permitted-work-form/permitted-work-factsheet#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20a%20disability,than%2016%20hours%20each%20week

In that document is along the lines of what the job centre person told me years ago: 

Supported permitted work is for people with a disability, illness or health condition who cannot work for more than a few hours each week. The work is supervised by a professional support worker. A professional support worker is someone who works for a public or voluntary organisation.



CAB has advice about this too which points back to the DWP / GOV.UK form: 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/employment-and-support-allowance/while-youre-getting-esa/working-while-getting-esa/#:~:text=While%20you%27re%20getting%20Employment,limits%20%2D%20called%20%27permitted%20work%27

You can earn £167 per week with no limit on the number of hours if it’s work:

• being supervised by someone from a local council or voluntary organisation

• as part of a treatment programme done under medical supervision while you’re in hospital or regularly attending hospital as an out-patient

You can do any type of permitted work but you can only do one at a time. It’s okay to move from one type of permitted work to another.

It’s important to let the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) know about any permitted work you do or if you change your permitted work. 

To let the DWP know fill in a permitted work form on GOV.UK

So anyway, I can't just get any job up to 15.99 hours per week, if you look at the forms it's very specific to what's allowed and someone who can supervise a disabled person to do this work (i.e., support) has to sign off and be included in the whole process. 

Muttleythefrog

Charles_Foxtrot said:

Lol crap . I have remembered things wrong. I found the scan from my initial award letter years ago and it doesn’t talk about “supported permitted work”. 

I must have found out about all that via gov.uk, CAB, etc at the time. Most recently, around months ago a charity that has been helping me was digging around to how to about it. As I can’t just work any job - the point of my contribution ESA is that it is paying me because I can’t work.

The whole thing about "supported permitted work" I posted the gov.uk form before. More info here: 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/employment-and-support-allowance-permitted-work-form/permitted-work-factsheet#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20a%20disability,than%2016%20hours%20each%20week

In that document is along the lines of what the job centre person told me years ago: 

Supported permitted work is for people with a disability, illness or health condition who cannot work for more than a few hours each week. The work is supervised by a professional support worker. A professional support worker is someone who works for a public or voluntary organisation.



CAB has advice about this too which points back to the DWP / GOV.UK form: 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/employment-and-support-allowance/while-youre-getting-esa/working-while-getting-esa/#:~:text=While%20you%27re%20getting%20Employment,limits%20%2D%20called%20%27permitted%20work%27

You can earn £167 per week with no limit on the number of hours if it’s work:

• being supervised by someone from a local council or voluntary organisation

• as part of a treatment programme done under medical supervision while you’re in hospital or regularly attending hospital as an out-patient

You can do any type of permitted work but you can only do one at a time. It’s okay to move from one type of permitted work to another.

It’s important to let the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) know about any permitted work you do or if you change your permitted work. 

To let the DWP know fill in a permitted work form on GOV.UK

So anyway, I can't just get any job up to 15.99 hours per week, if you look at the forms it's very specific to what's allowed and someone who can supervise a disabled person to do this work (i.e., support) has to sign off and be included in the whole process. 

As I read it you can do permitted or supervised permitted work (a form of permitted work)... the former having an hours limit. The form I would assume you just avoid the Supervisor section if it does not apply - in the instructions it indicates all sections need to be fully completed except: 

• Page 5 – if you think the work you want to do is supported permitted work, your professional support worker must fill in this part for you

"As I can’t just work any job - the point of my contribution ESA is that it is paying me because I can’t work." - anyone can work (in theory a baby, pet or unconscious person could with the right legal permissions). ESA is awarded due to limitations in ability to do work or work related activity....i.e. it's awarded not because you can't work but because they determine restrictions or risks significant enough not to demand you do. 

The government and CAB links are consistent in pointing to the possibility of permitted work and supported permitted work so I am not sure if I'm misunderstanding your posts or you are misunderstanding what you're reading...lol.. but when you say "So anyway, I can't just get any job up to 15.99 hours per week" as far as I can see in theory you can (pay limit also considered!) but whether it is sensible or suited to you is another question well beyond us here and clearly for many claimants out there any working may well have to be supervised.

Spoonie_Turtle

Let's put it another way 

If you found a suitable job below the thresholds that you could do, you would be allowed to do it.  That's permitted work.  All DWP need to know is that you're doing it.

Supported PW would be something perhaps offered via some kind of scheme (? neither you or I know the ins and outs) that would only be available to certain people with very limited ability to work.

The factsheet and PW1 form refer to both types because they have to cover both types, there isn't a separate form for each type of permitted work.

TELLIT01

I've been away from processing ESA claims for several years now, but I think there was a time limit (not just hours per week limit) on Permitted Work but not on Supported PW.  I could be totally wrong, and/or the rules may have changed.

Alice_Holt

TELLIT01 said:

I've been away from processing ESA claims for several years now, but I think there was a time limit (not just hours per week limit) on Permitted Work but not on Supported PW.  I could be totally wrong, and/or the rules may have changed.

       There is no limit on the number of weeks you can do permitted or support permitted work for.

     See: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/employment-and-support-allowance-permitted-work-form/permitted-work-factsheet

Charles_Foxtrot

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Let's put it another way 

If you found a suitable job below the thresholds that you could do, you would be allowed to do it.  That's permitted work.  All DWP need to know is that you're doing it.

Supported PW would be something perhaps offered via some kind of scheme (? neither you or I know the ins and outs) that would only be available to certain people with very limited ability to work.

The factsheet and PW1 form refer to both types because they have to cover both types, there isn't a separate form for each type of permitted work.

We can put it any way we want but I go by what is on the government’s and DWP’s and job centres instructions and websites, not from people on forums. It’s all there for us to read. 

I’d rather go by the government advice,