Pip/Assessment

Muttleythefrog

pope said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Let me double check the maths on this:
1d 2
2a 0
3b 1
4c 2
5a 0
6c 2
7b 2
8a 0
9b 2
10a 0

11a 0
12b 4

So DL - 11 points, Mob - 4 points
(8 -11 points for standard awards, 12+ points for enhanced)

So likely to receive a decision of standard DL award and given the prognosis the award probably 3 years (2 years plus 1 year for assessment)

Therefore agree with above advice. I would be inclined to assume the decision when you receive that in the post will mirror the report you've now requested and received. So while you wait for that decision and if you feel you should get more than standard Daily Living Award I would prepare a reconsideration request ready to submit. Expect little from such a reconsideration request (most decisions are unchanged) but perhaps more at a later appeal (where success rates are high). The fact that you suggest you should have scored more for mobility and my impression that you are likely to score low amounts across several Daily living activities and fall only one scoring (or elevated descriptor) descriptor short of an enhanced DL award implies to me challenging the imminent decision likely good course of action with minimal risks. Focus efforts on explaining how you meet the descriptors you think appropriate and try to give real examples of your experiences. If the decision does not mirror the report come back here to give details perhaps.

If it makes you feel a little more positive... it is common for people at first assessment to get zilch... no points at all.. all problems dismissed out of hand effectively... so you do have a good solid starting base here even with a report you do not entirely agree with as the assessor accepts you have significant disabilities in your day to day life and they're likely to be durable ones... they also accept those disabilities have widespread impact as they acknowledge them sufficiently to recommend point scoring descriptors in most of the activities.

So I want to do a MR and challenge descriptor for daily as you have mentioned just checked my self I am only 1 point off from enhanced daily. But I am also scared as I have heared some story's that with MR you can end up losing points.
I also want to challenge the 2 year duration of the award as I feel its short how long are awards usually given to people?
I also want to challenge mobility as well as I feel I should be entitled to atleast low mobility.

How do I do the MR do phone DWP or in writing best option?

Will I need new evidence or can I just send what I have again?

What is that I actually need to write focus on to get the best outcome as I absolutely have no idea any tips will be nice ?

Thanks 

Firstly obviously the caveat that you can only challenge decision when you have one.

Challenging decision when you have something to lose (as seems likely here because you're likely to be award Standard DL) carries risk... however generally that risk is low... and given the parameters in play visible I would suggest very low.

The length of award - again the decision will detail it but my understanding is usually they go with the 'prognosis' recommended and add on a year. A 3 year award is probably fairly typical (indeed my last PIP award after review was for this length and I have exhausted treatment options for severe MH issues - the longest award I've had was for 4 years) and you may struggle to argue for longer especially if there is ongoing treatment - others may advise differently. 

I would advise doing the reconsideration (MR) in writing after the decision is received (obvious caveat that if the decision varies from the assessment report then that would have to be considered). Any additional supportive evidence could be useful to get into the process... and same for an appeal if you acquire such at later date and end up appealing. There's no requirement to send in evidence or material you already have. Advise getting proof of posting (free at a post office) when you send the MR request.

Crucial is to focus on each relevant activity and what descriptor is most applicable to you and then describe your problems in relation to the activity. Remember that to be considered able to do something you need to be able to do it reliably (safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly and in reasonable time) and so if you have problems like mental illness or indeed many physical illnesses or disablements there may be activities you can achieve but you cannot achieve them reliably.... if applicable you can describe.

Given the report you have if you find you agree with any conclusions in the report/decision, as you go through the activities, I'd be tempted to state so and refer to it - do not get too distracted by the report and focus on your own truthful experiences in describing difficulties for relevant activities... but I do think it's important you sound credible and reasonable and so take any option to confirm agreement with descriptor choices by the assessor as appropriate.. that may also make any decision maker less reluctant to change or waste time on what seems accepted. If you do want to tackle the length of award issue then probably best advice is to detail any lack of changes over time to conditions/disablements and lack of improvement with any treatments or indeed lack of options of any treatments. It's a tactic I have used and there has been agreement that improvement is unlikely in the long term but that there is always a possibility time and engagement with therapy may improve symptoms.. and like I say my awards have been for 3 or 4 years.

CAB link is a good start for advice and process including link to form (which can be used but you might use it as a guide to information required or attach additional paperwork).
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/mandatory-reconsideration-pip/

Last point... on risk I can only recall one case that stands out on MSE regarding a PIP appeal where things went wrong and they lost award. In that case they were universally advised here, and by their own relative who created the thread, not to appeal (I'd have to find the thread to confirm but I would imagine the MR resulted in same decision as original)... this was because the decision sounded correct and the argument for an elevated award (based on Mob 1F) was totally flawed because 1. it was not true and 2. it meant countering a high scoring mobility descriptor (Mob 1E) that gave their standard award and was correct according to information given. The result was that the tribunal found the claimant completely unbelievable (their own supporting relative said they lied if I recall on the thread update) and they lost a good award. An interesting but rare case and one where commenters had noted and advised on the elevated risk due to the recklessness of the appeal.

pope

Indie_Kid said:

I did a paper MR. I went through the descriptors and wrote the difficulties with each task. I kept a diary. I got my mum to write (I live alone but get help a few hours a week from mum) a letter about how she helps me.

I went from 4 on care and 0 on mobility to 11 on care and 12 on mobility. I know I should have got at least 13 on care but the whole thing made me ill. (And I'd had an accident recently and was struggling with that(

When you say paper MR did you fill out a form I have seen it online it's to do PIP MR I am unable to get the link.?

So example I need to go through the descriptors which I feel I should of scored points on or haven't been given points? 

Example activity Taking nutrition I have scored A. But I feel I fit into D descriptor. So will need to write how Descriptor D affects me and give the reasons am I correct? 

Spoonie_Turtle

pope said:

Indie_Kid said:

I did a paper MR. I went through the descriptors and wrote the difficulties with each task. I kept a diary. I got my mum to write (I live alone but get help a few hours a week from mum) a letter about how she helps me.

I went from 4 on care and 0 on mobility to 11 on care and 12 on mobility. I know I should have got at least 13 on care but the whole thing made me ill. (And I'd had an accident recently and was struggling with that(

So example I need to go through the descriptors which I feel I should of scored points on or haven't been given points? 

Example activity Taking nutrition I have scored A. But I feel I fit into D descriptor. So will need to write how Descriptor D affects me and give the reasons am I correct? 

Yes, exactly.

I don't think you have to use the form but you would need to clearly explain you're asking for a Mandatory Reconsideration of your PIP decision dated xyz, with all your details so they match it up to your claim.  Using the form means you don't miss any vital details - or you could use it as reference to make sure you include all the details it asks for in just a typed submission.

I think I used the form and attached a printout of my case clearly set out.  I can't remember what I did actually put in the first part 4 box, probably something like 'please see attached sheets'.

https://www.gov.uk/mandatory-reconsideration/how-to-ask-for-mandatory-reconsideration  and scroll down to the link under 'asking for a mandatory reconsideration'.

Indie_Kid

I didn't use a form: I just wrote a letter making it clear I want a MR and outlining what descriptors I meet. I did get extra evidence.

pope

Spoonie_Turtle said:

pope said:

Indie_Kid said:

I did a paper MR. I went through the descriptors and wrote the difficulties with each task. I kept a diary. I got my mum to write (I live alone but get help a few hours a week from mum) a letter about how she helps me.

I went from 4 on care and 0 on mobility to 11 on care and 12 on mobility. I know I should have got at least 13 on care but the whole thing made me ill. (And I'd had an accident recently and was struggling with that(

So example I need to go through the descriptors which I feel I should of scored points on or haven't been given points? 

Example activity Taking nutrition I have scored A. But I feel I fit into D descriptor. So will need to write how Descriptor D affects me and give the reasons am I correct? 

Yes, exactly.

I don't think you have to use the form but you would need to clearly explain you're asking for a Mandatory Reconsideration of your PIP decision dated xyz, with all your details so they match it up to your claim.  Using the form means you don't miss any vital details - or you could use it as reference to make sure you include all the details it asks for in just a typed submission.

I think I used the form and attached a printout of my case clearly set out.  I can't remember what I did actually put in the first part 4 box, probably something like 'please see attached sheets'.

https://www.gov.uk/mandatory-reconsideration/how-to-ask-for-mandatory-reconsideration  and scroll down to the link under 'asking for a mandatory reconsideration'.

Do I need to send further evidence of any kind? To support MR?

Muttleythefrog

pope said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

pope said:

Indie_Kid said:

I did a paper MR. I went through the descriptors and wrote the difficulties with each task. I kept a diary. I got my mum to write (I live alone but get help a few hours a week from mum) a letter about how she helps me.

I went from 4 on care and 0 on mobility to 11 on care and 12 on mobility. I know I should have got at least 13 on care but the whole thing made me ill. (And I'd had an accident recently and was struggling with that(

So example I need to go through the descriptors which I feel I should of scored points on or haven't been given points? 

Example activity Taking nutrition I have scored A. But I feel I fit into D descriptor. So will need to write how Descriptor D affects me and give the reasons am I correct? 

Yes, exactly.

I don't think you have to use the form but you would need to clearly explain you're asking for a Mandatory Reconsideration of your PIP decision dated xyz, with all your details so they match it up to your claim.  Using the form means you don't miss any vital details - or you could use it as reference to make sure you include all the details it asks for in just a typed submission.

I think I used the form and attached a printout of my case clearly set out.  I can't remember what I did actually put in the first part 4 box, probably something like 'please see attached sheets'.

https://www.gov.uk/mandatory-reconsideration/how-to-ask-for-mandatory-reconsideration  and scroll down to the link under 'asking for a mandatory reconsideration'.

Do I need to send further evidence of any kind? To support MR?

 Additional evidence is not required... but any evidence you have not submitted or could get that is consistent or supportive of claimed problems can help. This is true at every stage.. be it initial assessment, MR or appeal. At the end of the day it is an evidence based game - primary evidence comes from you, the DWP tend to rely heavily on evidence provided by their privately contracted assessment company assessors, other evidence such as from medical professionals treating or assessing you can help.

Definitely read the CAB link I provide in my above post as it covers issues you're raising.

pope

I have just seen on one of the pages assessor has put. 

Justification For Descriptor 11 and 12

Recommendation and evidence used to support 

Although he reports anxiety affects 11, HOC shows he has relevant medication and is under the care of the GP and has had several sessions of CBT, He reports he doesn't leave the house because of his leg fracture which is not considered in this assessment, also he will get anxious and upset about the closure of a journey either familiar or not. Anxiety described in this assessment does not meet the threshold of OPD, no cognitive impairment was reported in this assessment. Therefore 11a likely.


What does OPD mean? Will this recommendation the assessor has put affect my MR when I put it in for mobility?

Thanks 

peteuk

OPD Overwhelming Psychological Distress - section 11 cover physical ability to walk, section 12 cover the cognitive and psychological  aspects.

Section 11 - how far can you stand/walk hence the breakdown of descriptor in distance.
Section 12 - have you the capacity to learn, follow directions ect and can you go out without it causes OPD.

So if you cant leave the house because of a physical problem then you wont score in section 12.  From the section above youve quoted it suggests they have noted your anxiety but it is not to the point of OPD.


NOTED the numbers are the wrong way round. 

Muttleythefrog

peteuk said:

OPD Overwhelming Psychological Distress - section 11 cover physical ability to walk, section 12 cover the cognitive and psychological  aspects.

Section 11 - how far can you stand/walk hence the breakdown of descriptor in distance.
Section 12 - have you the capacity to learn, follow directions ect and can you go out without it causes OPD.

So if you cant leave the house because of a physical problem then you wont score in section 12.  From the section above youve quoted it suggests they have noted your anxiety but it is not to the point of OPD.

Activities 11 and 12 the other way around right?

poppy12345

Muttleythefrog said:

peteuk said:

OPD Overwhelming Psychological Distress - section 11 cover physical ability to walk, section 12 cover the cognitive and psychological  aspects.

Section 11 - how far can you stand/walk hence the breakdown of descriptor in distance.
Section 12 - have you the capacity to learn, follow directions ect and can you go out without it causes OPD.

So if you cant leave the house because of a physical problem then you wont score in section 12.  From the section above youve quoted it suggests they have noted your anxiety but it is not to the point of OPD.

Activities 11 and 12 the other way around right?

Yes, correct. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf