BYD cars

Car_54

[Deleted User] said:

Car_54 said:

[Deleted User] said:

Car_54 said:

[Deleted User] said:

boxosox said:

I could never buy a car called "Build Your Dreams".

Plus, I think everyone should think hard before buying Chinese goods.  I've been doing so for the last 4-5 years.  It's hard (so much is manufacturered there) but I personally would never buy a product made in China by a Chinese company.

This is basically what it comes down to. BYD have a lot of experience with EVs and they are very nice cars. So either you are a racist or you aren't. You judge their products on their merits, or you just won't buy it because it's made by a Chinese company.

By the way, a lot of other cars from other manufacturers have Chinese parts in them. Their EV technology is unbeatable - Teslas made in China with Chinese batteries from CATL perform better than the American made ones. It's going to be hard for dedicated racists to buy a vehicle soon, especially if they don't want to compromise.

You don't need to be a racist to be uneasy about buying Chinese goods: just appalled by their human rights record.

"Their" human rights record? You mean the Chinese government's human rights record.

Yes, the Chinese government. For those who care about these things, buying Chinese products helps prop up that government.

There is no shortage of other odious regimes to boycott, without being racist.

Hmm, but whose cars are you going to buy then?

The American government is known to torture people, has been keeping people at Guantanamo for over two decades without charge, is systematically racist, and the manufacturers are not doing enough about climate change. The American people seem to love inefficient trucks.

European cars are okay I guess, unless you have some weird issue with the EU. Maybe not Italian cars, their government just took lesbian mother's names off birth certificates. Some brands are assembled in Eastern European countries with issues too. I think some Jaguars are, like their i-Pace.

The UK is obvious off limits, just look at our immigration policy and government threatening to withdraw human rights.

The Japanese still haven't apologised enough to the Koreans and Chinese, and have big issues with sexism and LGBTQ rights.

So maybe a German or French or Spanish car? Dacia are based in Romania.

I'd suggest taking the bus, but you don't want to prop up the British government.

You're right, of course. A big problem for "those who care about these things".

I'd certainly excuse the Japanese. We really can't go on holding grudges about 100-year old wars. Plus I'm driving a Honda at the mo.

As for buses, I've been on two already today. Both with Chinese chassis and drivetrains..

Car_54

MouldyOldDough said:

daveyjp said:

If the move to EVs is to be successful in the current timescale it will need countries with low costs of production to step in to provide the goods at an affordable price. Not everyone can choose £70k+ German brands.

Kia/Hyundai are part of that, but it will be Chinese manfacturers filling the gap.  MG have a very small foothold, but others will come along and the Geely, BYD groups will be at the forefront if the likes of Ford, Selentis, Nissan/Renault can't provide,

But before we get the cars - we need the infrastructure, surely the Chinese can help with that as well ?

I don't think it's the technology that's holding back the charging infrastructure, it's more political, commercial and regulatory.

And as ICE vehicles are phased out (don't hold your breath), that infrastructure will become just as important strategically as electricity or water. Not something you'd want to be dependent on a potantially hostile power for.

Dave_5150

MouldyOldDough said:

So what you are basically saying is that it is virtually impossible to avoid Chinese manufacture nowadays ?

Rember after Covid when every vehicle manufacturer's production was affected by the shortage of semiconductors from China (and Korea)?

Ectophile

boxosox said:

I could never buy a car called "Build Your Dreams".

Plus, I think everyone should think hard before buying Chinese goods.  I've been doing so for the last 4-5 years.  It's hard (so much is manufacturered there) but I personally would never buy a product made in China by a Chinese company.

The problem is that the European manufacturers are charging stupidly high prices for their electric cars (£40000 for a Vauxhall Astra, anybody?).  And Teslas are still out of most people's price range too.

SAIC have realised this and are selling MGs at a substantial discount compared with the European equivalents.

For some reason, the other Chinese manufacturers haven't caught on to this yet, and are still price matching the European equivalents.  Then they wonder why nobody buys Chinese cars from companies they have never heard of.

Goudy

Car_54 said:

MouldyOldDough said:

daveyjp said:

If the move to EVs is to be successful in the current timescale it will need countries with low costs of production to step in to provide the goods at an affordable price. Not everyone can choose £70k+ German brands.

Kia/Hyundai are part of that, but it will be Chinese manfacturers filling the gap.  MG have a very small foothold, but others will come along and the Geely, BYD groups will be at the forefront if the likes of Ford, Selentis, Nissan/Renault can't provide,

But before we get the cars - we need the infrastructure, surely the Chinese can help with that as well ?

I don't think it's the technology that's holding back the charging infrastructure, it's more political, commercial and regulatory.

And as ICE vehicles are phased out (don't hold your breath), that infrastructure will become just as important strategically as electricity or water. Not something you'd want to be dependent on a potantially hostile power for.

I tried to make a similar point on another EV related thread recently.

In the drive (no pun intended) to get to where we undoubtedly need to be, should we be so reliant on raw materials and manufactured goods from less than friendly sources?

It's not a question about being racist, we are a very long way from reaching some sort of planetary eutopia and that's not the fault of one side over another.

We agree or disagree trade agreements, issue sanctions and perhaps invade or threaten other countries.
We also have very big players in the supply and manufacture of materials and products related to our current energy sources that would likely not go quietly and these are on all sides, not just the seemingly unfriendly ones.

It's not a crazy leap to make when someone might suggest the likes of Ford, Stellantis, Nissan, Renault and the likes might not be able to provide if they can no longer get hold of enough materials to manufacture in the same scale.

It's not like this has never happened before, our history is full of examples.
Just recently we have witnessed a massive push in half of europe to give up dependency on gas from a certain area.
The gas was supplied pretty cheaply and dependency on it was almost instant as it was too expensive from elsewhere which meant a long list of elsewhere couldn't afford to produce it anymore. 
Then on a cold February morning last year half of europe realised someone had a tight hold of their knackers.

MouldyOldDough

Ectophile said:

boxosox said:

I could never buy a car called "Build Your Dreams".

Plus, I think everyone should think hard before buying Chinese goods.  I've been doing so for the last 4-5 years.  It's hard (so much is manufacturered there) but I personally would never buy a product made in China by a Chinese company.

The problem is that the European manufacturers are charging stupidly high prices for their electric cars (£40000 for a Vauxhall Astra, anybody?).  And Teslas are still out of most people's price range too.

SAIC have realised this and are selling MGs at a substantial discount compared with the European equivalents.

For some reason, the other Chinese manufacturers haven't caught on to this yet, and are still price matching the European equivalents.  Then they wonder why nobody buys Chinese cars from companies they have never heard of.

I agree about prices of what was / is a basic car - I had a Astra in the mid 90's and it was not up to much, I vowed never to buy another Astra - I am still waiting for a basic / no frills / well-under £20k EV to be available!!

And I don't mean the Citroen Ami.....

Dave_5150

MouldyOldDough said:

I agree about prices of what was / is a basic car - I had a Astra in the mid 90's and it was not up to much, I vowed never to buy another Astra - I am still waiting for a basic / no frills / well-under £20k EV to be available!!

And I don't mean the Citroen Ami.....

Prices are only heading one way whilst inflation is high and supply chain issues continue and it isn't down. 

It isn't just EV's either the base spec Dacia Sandero was the cheapest UK car at £7,995 in December 2020. They now retail at £13,795 today (a 72% increase!). 

Herzlos

MouldyOldDough said:

Ectophile said:

boxosox said:

I could never buy a car called "Build Your Dreams".

Plus, I think everyone should think hard before buying Chinese goods.  I've been doing so for the last 4-5 years.  It's hard (so much is manufacturered there) but I personally would never buy a product made in China by a Chinese company.

The problem is that the European manufacturers are charging stupidly high prices for their electric cars (£40000 for a Vauxhall Astra, anybody?).  And Teslas are still out of most people's price range too.

SAIC have realised this and are selling MGs at a substantial discount compared with the European equivalents.

For some reason, the other Chinese manufacturers haven't caught on to this yet, and are still price matching the European equivalents.  Then they wonder why nobody buys Chinese cars from companies they have never heard of.

I agree about prices of what was / is a basic car - I had a Astra in the mid 90's and it was not up to much, I vowed never to buy another Astra - I am still waiting for a basic / no frills / well-under £20k EV to be available!!

And I don't mean the Citroen Ami.....

There's 3169 electric cars on autotrader for under £20k. Including a brand new Corsa-E for £19,999.

If you're talking about new cars, £20k barely gets you anything these days beyond a handful of base spec superminis. It's pretty much £19k for a base model petrol Corsa these days.

[Deleted User]

MouldyOldDough said:

Ectophile said:

boxosox said:

I could never buy a car called "Build Your Dreams".

Plus, I think everyone should think hard before buying Chinese goods.  I've been doing so for the last 4-5 years.  It's hard (so much is manufacturered there) but I personally would never buy a product made in China by a Chinese company.

The problem is that the European manufacturers are charging stupidly high prices for their electric cars (£40000 for a Vauxhall Astra, anybody?).  And Teslas are still out of most people's price range too.

SAIC have realised this and are selling MGs at a substantial discount compared with the European equivalents.

For some reason, the other Chinese manufacturers haven't caught on to this yet, and are still price matching the European equivalents.  Then they wonder why nobody buys Chinese cars from companies they have never heard of.

I agree about prices of what was / is a basic car - I had a Astra in the mid 90's and it was not up to much, I vowed never to buy another Astra - I am still waiting for a basic / no frills / well-under £20k EV to be available!!

And I don't mean the Citroen Ami.....

Nissan Leaf fits the bill. MG ZSEV. There are plenty on offer.

MouldyOldDough

[Deleted User] said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Ectophile said:

boxosox said:

I could never buy a car called "Build Your Dreams".

Plus, I think everyone should think hard before buying Chinese goods.  I've been doing so for the last 4-5 years.  It's hard (so much is manufacturered there) but I personally would never buy a product made in China by a Chinese company.

The problem is that the European manufacturers are charging stupidly high prices for their electric cars (£40000 for a Vauxhall Astra, anybody?).  And Teslas are still out of most people's price range too.

SAIC have realised this and are selling MGs at a substantial discount compared with the European equivalents.

For some reason, the other Chinese manufacturers haven't caught on to this yet, and are still price matching the European equivalents.  Then they wonder why nobody buys Chinese cars from companies they have never heard of.

I agree about prices of what was / is a basic car - I had a Astra in the mid 90's and it was not up to much, I vowed never to buy another Astra - I am still waiting for a basic / no frills / well-under £20k EV to be available!!

And I don't mean the Citroen Ami.....

Nissan Leaf fits the bill. MG ZSEV. There are plenty on offer.

New cars?