Flight cancelled twice

eskbanker

I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing and it's undoubtedly possible that the first flight was regarded as having been delayed rather than cancelled, and I can certainly understand the merit of a minor tweak to the flight number to avoid confusion.  However, if that was the case, I'd have thought that original bookings would all be retained, rather than rebooking being needed, so the devil will be in the detail here....

OP - have Emirates clarified specifically what they're paying compensation for, and explained why not anything else?

Westin

The ‘rebooking’ I suspect might just be the need to reissue boarding passes for a new day and the new EK8xxx flight number. 

suhaib

eskbanker said:

I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing and it's undoubtedly possible that the first flight was regarded as having been delayed rather than cancelled, and I can certainly understand the merit of a minor tweak to the flight number to avoid confusion.  However, if that was the case, I'd have thought that original bookings would all be retained, rather than rebooking being needed, so the devil will be in the detail here....

OP - have Emirates clarified specifically what they're paying compensation for, and explained why not anything else?

They emailed this: Your flight EK068 on 10Dec from Stansted to Dubai is delayed and will now operate as EK8068 on 11Dec. The flight will depart from STN at 17:00 local time and arrive in Dubai at 03:55 12Dec local time. Check-in for the flight will close at 16:00/11Dec STN local time.

Issue is, the delayed flight the following day, we checked in and were waiting at the terminal, they only told us an hour before departure that it's delayed again by 5+ hours. Ended up with a 6.5 hours delay, missed connection in Dubai, and had to wait there for nearly 33 hours

eskbanker

suhaib said:

eskbanker said:

I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing and it's undoubtedly possible that the first flight was regarded as having been delayed rather than cancelled, and I can certainly understand the merit of a minor tweak to the flight number to avoid confusion.  However, if that was the case, I'd have thought that original bookings would all be retained, rather than rebooking being needed, so the devil will be in the detail here....

OP - have Emirates clarified specifically what they're paying compensation for, and explained why not anything else?

They emailed this: Your flight EK068 on 10Dec from Stansted to Dubai is delayed and will now operate as EK8068 on 11Dec. The flight will depart from STN at 17:00 local time and arrive in Dubai at 03:55 12Dec local time. Check-in for the flight will close at 16:00/11Dec STN local time.

Issue is, the delayed flight the following day, we checked in and were waiting at the terminal, they only told us an hour before departure that it's delayed again by 5+ hours. Ended up with a 6.5 hours delay, missed connection in Dubai, and had to wait there for nearly 33 hours

It now seems clear that you suffered multiple delays to one flight, rather than a cancellation of one and then a delay on another, so your situation is different from the thread starter's and in these circumstances you're only due one compensation payment, despite the cumulative delays being substantial - there's no recognition of this in the regulations, so being delayed by three days is ultimately treated the same as three hours.

suhaib

Westin said:

suhaib said:

Hi, 

Trying to gather if I'm entitled to one flight compensation or 2. Emirates have so far only offered for one. 

10 Dec flight at 20:00ish hours ek068, had to deplane due to engine failure. Rebooked for another flight next day, same plane. Connecting flight will be missed and Rebooked. 

11 Dec flight at 1700 hours EK8068, delayed again by 6 hours due to engine problems again, only told us an hour before boarding. This made us miss our connecting flight again. Had to wait 30 hours for next flight which was ironically late over 2 hours again as about to board lol. 

Left London sun 10 dec and got to sialkot (Pakistan) on Wednesday night 11pm on 13th dec, after nearly 3.5 days! Very frustrated with the whole experience, lost out on precious family time and was attending an event, so barely time for shopping etc. 

I actually read that differently to @eskbanker.   I think EK068/10DEC is delayed with a rescheduled departure to following day. Airlines will then often add another digit to the flight number if it subsequently operates the next day, or has is a new flight added for operational reasons.   EK068/10DEC therefore becoming EK8068, with the delay until the next day.  Stops confusion when the next day's passengers turn up for the same (EK068) flight.

Certainly one compensation payment possibly due.  Not convinced it is two payments.

Copy paste from another website, I'm unable to paste links:

It might seem odd but German courts have repeatedly decided that way. Two of those decisions (see the verdict of 27.06.2017, 30 C 553/17 and of 16.05.2013, 31 C 3349/12) are from the AG Frankfurt/Main. This court can be considered to be one of the courts in Germany with the highest competence in all passenger compensation related matters due to its proximity to one of Europe's biggest airport hubs, Frankfurt Airport (short: FRA). Hence, many related lawsuits are decided there.

The Case

The court inter alia had to decide a case in which the passengers reached their final destination roughly two days after their scheduled arrival. Their first flight (airline 1) had been cancelled, so they were rebooked for the next day on a flight with the defendant. That flight was also cancelled. The plaintiffs reached their destination with a third flight.

The verdict implies that the plaintiff had successfully claimed EUR 600.00 from airline 1 for the cancellation of the original flight.

The defendant denied the same for the replacement flight's disruption arguing that only events concerning the original flight could trigger a compensation (hence, airline 1 being liable) and, consequently, that the disruption of the replacement can not entitle to such. 

The Decision

The court proved the defendant wrong. It argued logically that a replacement flight is still a flight and, therefore, subject to the same compensation regime as the original one. It also pointed out that the compensation under Regulation (EC) no. 261/2004 is intended to balance the inconveniences caused by the disruption (delay or cancellation of the flight) and that these are the same no matter what the (booking) background of the flight is.

Hence, the court sentenced the defendant (airline of the replacement flight) to pay the compensation and the passenger received EUR 600.00 a second time.

Summary

So your next 'double-double' might not only be a coffee but a double flight disruption resulting in a double compensation totalling up to EUR 1,200.00. Make sure to keep your records, have your chances verified and claim what's yours!

eskbanker

suhaib said:
Copy paste from another website, I'm unable to paste links:

[...]

Their first flight (airline 1) had been cancelled, so they were rebooked for the next day on a flight with the defendant. That flight was also cancelled. The plaintiffs reached their destination with a third flight.

[...]

The court proved the defendant wrong. It argued logically that a replacement flight is still a flight and, therefore, subject to the same compensation regime as the original one.

The case you quoted relates to two flights being cancelled, so the view of the court was that they both qualify for compensation because they were two distinct entities.  However, you clarified that none of your flights were actually cancelled, and therefore your situation is treated as one long delay, so one compensation payment.

Westin

eskbanker said:

suhaib said:
Copy paste from another website, I'm unable to paste links:

[...]

Their first flight (airline 1) had been cancelled, so they were rebooked for the next day on a flight with the defendant. That flight was also cancelled. The plaintiffs reached their destination with a third flight.

[...]

The court proved the defendant wrong. It argued logically that a replacement flight is still a flight and, therefore, subject to the same compensation regime as the original one.

The case you quoted relates to two flights being cancelled, so the view of the court was that they both qualify for compensation because they were two distinct entities.  However, you clarified that none of your flights were actually cancelled, and therefore your situation is treated as one long delay, so one compensation payment.

+1 
Exactly.

suhaib

eskbanker said:

suhaib said:
Copy paste from another website, I'm unable to paste links:

[...]

Their first flight (airline 1) had been cancelled, so they were rebooked for the next day on a flight with the defendant. That flight was also cancelled. The plaintiffs reached their destination with a third flight.

[...]

The court proved the defendant wrong. It argued logically that a replacement flight is still a flight and, therefore, subject to the same compensation regime as the original one.

The case you quoted relates to two flights being cancelled, so the view of the court was that they both qualify for compensation because they were two distinct entities.  However, you clarified that none of your flights were actually cancelled, and therefore your situation is treated as one long delay, so one compensation payment.

I understand that. But the issue is they email and stayed they are rebooking me from 1700hours following day. That flight also got delayed an hour before departure. Clearly they committed to a departure time the following day for which I had to re-checkin again? 


Email:

Your flight EK068 on 10Dec from Stansted to Dubai is delayed and will now operate as EK8068 on 11Dec. The flight will depart from STN at 17:00 local time and arrive in Dubai at 03:55 12Dec local time. Check-in for the flight will close at 16:00/11Dec STN local time.

 

We will rebook the flights to your final destination and send an updated booking to the email address available in your booking.

eskbanker

suhaib said:

I understand that. But the issue is they email and stayed they are rebooking me from 1700hours following day. That flight also got delayed an hour before departure. Clearly they committed to a departure time the following day for which I had to re-checkin again?

But at no point were you advised of a flight being cancelled, so ultimately it's regarded as the same flight being delayed (however often it was subject to separate delays), therefore one compensation payment.

As @Westin pointed out, the fact that the flight was given a modified number and boarding passes had to be reissued simply reflects the necessity to avoid confusion with the EK068 already scheduled to operate on 11 December, rather than indicating a cancellation and then a different replacement flight as such.