Help with wiring an Ikea light fitting

ashe

ThisIsWeird said:

Hi Ashe.

This is a UK-sourced light? May I ask from where?
No earth terminal shown or referred to in the instructions, so if this has come from a legitimate UK source, I'm going to stick my neck out and reckon there will almost certainly be a double-insulated symbol (a wee square inside a square) on it when it arrives.

Assuming it does, then no earth connection is required.

A Mickey Mouse way of doing this since you do have access to above the light - albeit a touch awkward - is to ID & label all the existing wires to the rose, bearing in mind the similar colours and making 100% sure of no error - then (with the power fully isolated) undo them, remove the rose, pull the wires back up into the ceiling, and reconnect them there - including the flex going to the bulb holder - but remove the actual holder. Feed the pendant flex down to the new light fitting. The securing points for the new bracket should match that of the old rose. Jobbie jobbed, if a bit MM.

That, to my mind, is perfectly safe. A less MM method would be to use a proper junction now instead of the rose. Screw terminals are fine since it's accessible. Use Wagos inside a neat box if you prefer.

From Ikea UK. They've told me it's double insulated, but not got the packaging in hand yet. Unfortunately access from above requires a gold medal in olympics - as above I had to contort myself through some gaps just to get near enough to poke the insulation out of the way to see which way the wires went etc. 

ThisIsWeird

ashe said:

Ikea live chat have just confirmed that it is double insulated, although I've not yet received it as still our for delivery. Are you saying something about the installation would negate that somehow risteard?

No. You are good to go

ThisIsWeird

ashe said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Hi Ashe.

This is a UK-sourced light? May I ask from where?
No earth terminal shown or referred to in the instructions, so if this has come from a legitimate UK source, I'm going to stick my neck out and reckon there will almost certainly be a double-insulated symbol (a wee square inside a square) on it when it arrives.

Assuming it does, then no earth connection is required.

A Mickey Mouse way of doing this since you do have access to above the light - albeit a touch awkward - is to ID & label all the existing wires to the rose, bearing in mind the similar colours and making 100% sure of no error - then (with the power fully isolated) undo them, remove the rose, pull the wires back up into the ceiling, and reconnect them there - including the flex going to the bulb holder - but remove the actual holder. Feed the pendant flex down to the new light fitting. The securing points for the new bracket should match that of the old rose. Jobbie jobbed, if a bit MM.

That, to my mind, is perfectly safe. A less MM method would be to use a proper junction now instead of the rose. Screw terminals are fine since it's accessible. Use Wagos inside a neat box if you prefer.

From Ikea UK. They've told me it's double insulated, but not got the packaging in hand yet. Unfortunately access from above requires a gold medal in olympics - as above I had to contort myself through some gaps just to get near enough to poke the insulation out of the way to see which way the wires went etc. 

Best hope there is room inside the new light base in which to use Wagos, then. 

But, you really cannot lay a flat panel over the joists so you lie flat with yer head and hands above where the cables go through?

Another possibility, since the new fitting has a large dia 'rose',  is to enlarge the ceiling hole enough to use a JB on the room side, but to then push it back up through the ceiling. If doing this, I'd seal off the enlarged hole using tape or similar to reduce dust and draughts, leaving only the pendant flex coming through.

ashe

ThisIsWeird said:

ashe said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Hi Ashe.

This is a UK-sourced light? May I ask from where?
No earth terminal shown or referred to in the instructions, so if this has come from a legitimate UK source, I'm going to stick my neck out and reckon there will almost certainly be a double-insulated symbol (a wee square inside a square) on it when it arrives.

Assuming it does, then no earth connection is required.

A Mickey Mouse way of doing this since you do have access to above the light - albeit a touch awkward - is to ID & label all the existing wires to the rose, bearing in mind the similar colours and making 100% sure of no error - then (with the power fully isolated) undo them, remove the rose, pull the wires back up into the ceiling, and reconnect them there - including the flex going to the bulb holder - but remove the actual holder. Feed the pendant flex down to the new light fitting. The securing points for the new bracket should match that of the old rose. Jobbie jobbed, if a bit MM.

That, to my mind, is perfectly safe. A less MM method would be to use a proper junction now instead of the rose. Screw terminals are fine since it's accessible. Use Wagos inside a neat box if you prefer.

From Ikea UK. They've told me it's double insulated, but not got the packaging in hand yet. Unfortunately access from above requires a gold medal in olympics - as above I had to contort myself through some gaps just to get near enough to poke the insulation out of the way to see which way the wires went etc. 

Best hope there is room inside the new light base in which to use Wagos, then. 

But, you really cannot lay a flat panel over the joists so you lie flat with yer head and hands above where the cables go through?

Another possibility, since the new fitting has a large dia 'rose',  is to enlarge the ceiling hole enough to use a JB on the room side, but to then push it back up through the ceiling. If doing this, I'd seal off the enlarged hole using tape or similar to reduce dust and draughts, leaving only the pendant flex coming through.

I'll check what the positioning is like on the bracket when it arrives, if can then go with the hole I will junction box it 

yes to bjoards, it's just getting them to that point, basically the centre of my loft is blocked off as the boiler is there and there's various boarding and support struts in the way so have to go either side. It's a 1999 build and there are tons of trusses in the way and it's where the roof slopes in so there isn't much head height. It's an awful layout and I am dreading trying to top up the insulation. 

ashe

https://www.screwfix.com/p/wago-24a-light-junction-box-grey/8423f

^ would this do?

also I have some of these but I think they're too bulky; 

Would I be better off with some of these? 

https://www.screwfix.com/search?search=Wago+3+way

molerat

Whatever you use you need space for 4 terminal blocks to replicate the ceiling rose.  2 neutral (joined to flex), 3 live loop, switched live (joined to flex) and 3 earth.

ThisIsWeird

ashe said:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/wago-24a-light-junction-box-grey/8423f

^ would this do?

also I have some of these but I think they're too bulky; 

Would I be better off with some of these? 

https://www.screwfix.com/search?search=Wago+3+way

As Mole says.
You'll need 4-way, but only 5 amp, which should be physically smaller.
Please look up ceiling light wiring to understand what's going on. :-)

ashe

ThisIsWeird said:

ashe said:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/wago-24a-light-junction-box-grey/8423f

^ would this do?

also I have some of these but I think they're too bulky; 

Would I be better off with some of these? 

https://www.screwfix.com/search?search=Wago+3+way

As Mole says.

You'll need 4-way, but only 5 amp, which should be physically smaller.

Please look up ceiling light wiring to understand what's going on. :-)

Yeah I see now I'll need the 4 way for the earth blocks, I'll go get some tomorrow and prob enlarge the hole in ceiling and stuff it up there. The sleeved section in the light is quite long so that take care of the double insulated part of that. 

ThisIsWeird

The connector for the earths can be a physically separate single Wago if that's easier - it'll be just used to safely terminate the earth wires. But all three earth wires MUST be connected together.

Don't get the other ones mixed up...

Yes, that sleeve will be to give added protection to the cable, and likely add to the 'double' too. If you use the existing flex cable from the rose, you should find it slim and super-easy to thread through.

ashe

ThisIsWeird said:

The connector for the earths can be a physically separate single Wago if that's easier - it'll be just used to safely terminate the earth wires. But all three earth wires MUST be connected together.

Don't get the other ones mixed up...

Yes, that sleeve will be to give added protection to the cable, and likely add to the 'double' too. If you use the existing flex cable from the rose, you should find it slim and super-easy to thread through.

Connected together as in threaded into a single wago port, or just inside a wago? I figured if all 3 go inside a wago that would connect them to allow the earth to function?

Anyways I try and be prettty thorough, once I've got what I need from the store today I'll post a diagram before acting.