Help with wiring an Ikea light fitting

ashe

This will be arriving later today. I've just taken a look at the instructions and they're in Greek, and can't see any YouTube guides. 

Obviously usual electrical safety rules apply etc 

The Instructions are here;

https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/assembly_instructions/dejsa-ceiling-lamp-with-3-lamps-chrome-plated-opal-white-glass__AA-2250759-3-2.pdf

this is our current ceiling rose; I was going to knock power off and take this down, give the area a quick clean and install the bracket for the new light




looking through the instructions;

1) it seems to suggest that once the bracket is in the roof, you hang the light off the tip while you work on the wiring?

2) on page 5 & 6 I take it the live & neutral is fed through that rubber gauze like structure / tube

3) looking at my wires I don't think they'll have the length to reach this unless I strip some off the pendant? Is that generally ok to do or am I better off getting fresh wire?

4) guessing the L / N / Loop terminal element in that photo of my current setup is going to be part of the existing rose. How do I deal with this with the new light? Will I have to feed them into wago or chock block? 

5) the second set of instructions confused the hell out of me but I think they're if you're wiring it from the side rather then the top so safe to ignore that section?

6) should there not be an earth terminal as the base is metal? There is an earth in the current plastic ceiling rose but can't see that covered in the instructions here, unless it's double insulated in which case I can just terminate it with a wago?

Thanks!

MisterNick

Can't really help with the technical side, but couldn't you down load an app on your phone to translate the Greek instructions. I have one for when I am in foreign countries and want menus translated.

CSI_Yorkshire

Not actually in Greek - just a whole bunch of pictures without any commentary, written instruction or anything else.  Common with most IKEA instruction sheets.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Is there not any slack in the ceiling?
4. The IKEA instructions are "how to connect to the blue and brown" of your picture - you'll have to replicate the rest yourself.
5. Correct
6.  There should, unless clearly market as double insulated (is the symbol there anywhere?).  What about using one of the bracket mounting screws?

Risteard

ashe said:

This will be arriving later today. I've just taken a look at the instructions and they're in Greek, and can't see any YouTube guides. 

Obviously usual electrical safety rules apply etc 

The Instructions are here;

https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/assembly_instructions/dejsa-ceiling-lamp-with-3-lamps-chrome-plated-opal-white-glass__AA-2250759-3-2.pdf

this is our current ceiling rose; I was going to knock power off and take this down, give the area a quick clean and install the bracket for the new light




looking through the instructions;

1) it seems to suggest that once the bracket is in the roof, you hang the light off the tip while you work on the wiring?

2) on page 5 & 6 I take it the live & neutral is fed through that rubber gauze like structure / tube

3) looking at my wires I don't think they'll have the length to reach this unless I strip some off the pendant? Is that generally ok to do or am I better off getting fresh wire?

4) guessing the L / N / Loop terminal element in that photo of my current setup is going to be part of the existing rose. How do I deal with this with the new light? Will I have to feed them into wago or chock block? 

5) the second set of instructions confused the hell out of me but I think they're if you're wiring it from the side rather then the top so safe to ignore that section?

6) should there not be an earth terminal as the base is metal? There is an earth in the current plastic ceiling rose but can't see that covered in the instructions here, unless it's double insulated in which case I can just terminate it with a wago?

Thanks!

It won't be Class II (double/reinforced insulation) with exposed cable insulation with the sheath removed. These fittings aren't designed for UK-style 3 plate wiring. Really you should get an Electrician to safely install this luminaire.

ashe

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Not actually in Greek - just a whole bunch of pictures without any commentary, written instruction or anything else.  Common with most IKEA instruction sheets.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Is there not any slack in the ceiling?
4. The IKEA instructions are "how to connect to the blue and brown" of your picture - you'll have to replicate the rest yourself.
5. Correct
6.  There should, unless clearly market as double insulated (is the symbol there anywhere?).  What about using one of the bracket mounting screws?

Thanks; yes not actually in Greek 😂 sorry MisterNick. I'm a big fan of Ikea and actually enjoy putting furniture up but with electrical gear I like clear instructions 😂

3; the wires follow a joist in the loft and it's very hard to get above that point due to the amount of roof trusses we have as well as vent ducting and our boiler is up there so supported with boarding etc; I had to do some acrobatics just to get near enough to poke the insulation out of the way to make sure I could see which way the wire went so I'd be safe installing the bracket - long story short a nightmare to try and get more down than what is there, so I think I'd need to recreate this. I've seen comments online that wago's need to go in a junction box, but the current ceiling hole is tiny and i doubt would be space under the fitting for one. Any advice on best practice? 

6; - it hasn't arrived yet and I believe this is normally on the packaging, just going on the instructions online; so i will check it once it arrives 

CSI_Yorkshire

ashe said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Not actually in Greek - just a whole bunch of pictures without any commentary, written instruction or anything else.  Common with most IKEA instruction sheets.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Is there not any slack in the ceiling?
4. The IKEA instructions are "how to connect to the blue and brown" of your picture - you'll have to replicate the rest yourself.
5. Correct
6.  There should, unless clearly market as double insulated (is the symbol there anywhere?).  What about using one of the bracket mounting screws?

Thanks; yes not actually in Greek 😂 sorry MisterNick. I'm a big fan of Ikea and actually enjoy putting furniture up but with electrical gear I like clear instructions 😂

3; the wires follow a joist in the loft and it's very hard to get above that point due to the amount of roof trusses we have as well as vent ducting and our boiler is up there so supported with boarding etc; I had to do some acrobatics just to get near enough to poke the insulation out of the way to make sure I could see which way the wire went so I'd be safe installing the bracket - long story short a nightmare to try and get more down than what is there, so I think I'd need to recreate this. I've seen comments online that wago's need to go in a junction box, but the current ceiling hole is tiny and i doubt would be space under the fitting for one. Any advice on best practice? 

6; - it hasn't arrived yet and I believe this is normally on the packaging, just going on the instructions online; so i will check it once it arrives 

Best practice (and the Wiring Regs) want all junctions in accessible locations unless they are "maintenance free".  I have a suspicion, but can't put my hands on any documents to confirm at the moment, that wagos count as that and you can basically stick them anywhere you want.

You're already thinking about it more than most DIY-ers would.

Risteard

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Not actually in Greek - just a whole bunch of pictures without any commentary, written instruction or anything else.  Common with most IKEA instruction sheets.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Is there not any slack in the ceiling?
4. The IKEA instructions are "how to connect to the blue and brown" of your picture - you'll have to replicate the rest yourself.
5. Correct
6.  There should, unless clearly market as double insulated (is the symbol there anywhere?).  What about using one of the bracket mounting screws?

Using a screw won't really cut it as the luminaire is designed to be Class II, and would need proper manufacturer testing to verify that all exposed conductive parts are Earthed to be safely made Class I.

CSI_Yorkshire

Risteard said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Not actually in Greek - just a whole bunch of pictures without any commentary, written instruction or anything else.  Common with most IKEA instruction sheets.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Is there not any slack in the ceiling?
4. The IKEA instructions are "how to connect to the blue and brown" of your picture - you'll have to replicate the rest yourself.
5. Correct
6.  There should, unless clearly market as double insulated (is the symbol there anywhere?).  What about using one of the bracket mounting screws?

Using a screw won't really cut it as the luminaire is designed to be Class II, and would need proper manufacturer testing to verify that all exposed conductive parts are Earthed to be safely made Class I.

Risteard said:

ashe said:

This will be arriving later today. I've just taken a look at the instructions and they're in Greek, and can't see any YouTube guides. 

Obviously usual electrical safety rules apply etc 

The Instructions are here;

https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/assembly_instructions/dejsa-ceiling-lamp-with-3-lamps-chrome-plated-opal-white-glass__AA-2250759-3-2.pdf

this is our current ceiling rose; I was going to knock power off and take this down, give the area a quick clean and install the bracket for the new light




looking through the instructions;

1) it seems to suggest that once the bracket is in the roof, you hang the light off the tip while you work on the wiring?

2) on page 5 & 6 I take it the live & neutral is fed through that rubber gauze like structure / tube

3) looking at my wires I don't think they'll have the length to reach this unless I strip some off the pendant? Is that generally ok to do or am I better off getting fresh wire?

4) guessing the L / N / Loop terminal element in that photo of my current setup is going to be part of the existing rose. How do I deal with this with the new light? Will I have to feed them into wago or chock block? 

5) the second set of instructions confused the hell out of me but I think they're if you're wiring it from the side rather then the top so safe to ignore that section?

6) should there not be an earth terminal as the base is metal? There is an earth in the current plastic ceiling rose but can't see that covered in the instructions here, unless it's double insulated in which case I can just terminate it with a wago?

Thanks!

It won't be Class II (double/reinforced insulation) with exposed cable insulation with the sheath removed. These fittings aren't designed for UK-style 3 plate wiring. Really you should get an Electrician to safely install this luminaire.

I know you're a big fan (quite rightly) of getting proper electricians in for most works, but sometimes that is overkill.

Risteard

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Risteard said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Not actually in Greek - just a whole bunch of pictures without any commentary, written instruction or anything else.  Common with most IKEA instruction sheets.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Is there not any slack in the ceiling?
4. The IKEA instructions are "how to connect to the blue and brown" of your picture - you'll have to replicate the rest yourself.
5. Correct
6.  There should, unless clearly market as double insulated (is the symbol there anywhere?).  What about using one of the bracket mounting screws?

Using a screw won't really cut it as the luminaire is designed to be Class II, and would need proper manufacturer testing to verify that all exposed conductive parts are Earthed to be safely made Class I.

Risteard said:

ashe said:

This will be arriving later today. I've just taken a look at the instructions and they're in Greek, and can't see any YouTube guides. 

Obviously usual electrical safety rules apply etc 

The Instructions are here;

https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/assembly_instructions/dejsa-ceiling-lamp-with-3-lamps-chrome-plated-opal-white-glass__AA-2250759-3-2.pdf

this is our current ceiling rose; I was going to knock power off and take this down, give the area a quick clean and install the bracket for the new light




looking through the instructions;

1) it seems to suggest that once the bracket is in the roof, you hang the light off the tip while you work on the wiring?

2) on page 5 & 6 I take it the live & neutral is fed through that rubber gauze like structure / tube

3) looking at my wires I don't think they'll have the length to reach this unless I strip some off the pendant? Is that generally ok to do or am I better off getting fresh wire?

4) guessing the L / N / Loop terminal element in that photo of my current setup is going to be part of the existing rose. How do I deal with this with the new light? Will I have to feed them into wago or chock block? 

5) the second set of instructions confused the hell out of me but I think they're if you're wiring it from the side rather then the top so safe to ignore that section?

6) should there not be an earth terminal as the base is metal? There is an earth in the current plastic ceiling rose but can't see that covered in the instructions here, unless it's double insulated in which case I can just terminate it with a wago?

Thanks!

It won't be Class II (double/reinforced insulation) with exposed cable insulation with the sheath removed. These fittings aren't designed for UK-style 3 plate wiring. Really you should get an Electrician to safely install this luminaire.

I know you're a big fan (quite rightly) of getting proper electricians in for most works, but sometimes that is overkill.

DIY conversion of a Class II luminaire to Class I is extremely unwise and likely to be unsafe. It's most certainly not overkill to suggest that the luminaire needs to be installed safely and correctly - as I pointed out these were never designed for 3 plate wiring.

ThisIsWeird

Hi Ashe.

This is a UK-sourced light? May I ask from where?
No earth terminal shown or referred to in the instructions, so if this has come from a legitimate UK source, I'm going to stick my neck out and reckon there will almost certainly be a double-insulated symbol (a wee square inside a square) on it when it arrives.

Assuming it does, then no earth connection is required.

A Mickey Mouse way of doing this since you do have access to above the light - albeit a touch awkward - is to ID & label all the existing wires to the rose, bearing in mind the similar colours and making 100% sure of no error - then (with the power fully isolated) undo them, remove the rose, pull the wires back up into the ceiling, and reconnect them there to the rose. Include the pendant flex going to the bulb holder, but remove the actual holder from its end. Screw the rose to the side of the joints above the ceiling hole, screw it's cover back on, and feed the pendant flex down through the ceiling to the new light fitting.

The securing points for the new light's mounting bracket should match that of the old rose. Jobbie jobbed, if a bit MM.

That, to my mind, is perfectly safe. A less MM method would be to use a proper junction now instead of the rose; screw terminals are fine since it's accessible. Use Wagos inside a neat box if you prefer.

The only complex thing here is getting the wires correct.

ashe

Ikea live chat have just confirmed that it is double insulated, although I've not yet received it as still our for delivery. Are you saying something about the installation would negate that somehow risteard?