Supplier Failure - Advice re Supplier of Last Resort (SoLR) process not fit for purpose

QrizB

PowerDev said:

As they have of course a not inconsiderable Cash Balance (although on tight margins) they can use that for End of Day high interest short term loans as the 'Treasury' departments of major companies balance their End of Day positions.

"High interest" is debatable. 2021/22 was not 1983.

For much of the period in question, the SONIA rate was around 0.05% pa.

https://www.global-rates.com/en/interest-rates/sonia/2021.aspx

https://www.global-rates.com/en/interest-rates/sonia/2022.aspx

ArbitraryRandom

PowerDev said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

PowerDev said:

QrizB said:

If we've all finished measuring bits of anatomy ...

... we seem to be on page 6 of this thread, and so far we haven't found anyone other than the OP who thinks the specific topic that he's wound up about is a major issue.

Perhaps we can let the thread die now?

Because most customers treat OFGEMs advice as mandatory not a lot of them will switch before SoLR completes although there are two of us on this thread who did.  And a lot of people do not like switching anyway because of the issues I cited, especially in the early days from 1998.  Thus no one appreciates the issue and what it has cost them; including the other 349998 customers of my Supplier C.    

But isn't that exactly the point? 

Most customers don't shop around - and wouldn't shop around if the change you are proposing was made. 

Hence, for the majority, there's no issue; for the minority there maybe an issue in some specific and rare circumstances... but only a minority of that minority would actually behave differently if given the chance. 

Meaning the existing process is entirely fit for purpose in all but a tiny number of cases. 

The point is that a lot of customers dont switch, partly because of the murky history with Supplier behaviour.  Those that do will mainly have obeyed OFGEMs advice and that, as you can clearly see from the figures posted, will have cost them dearly.  As the Fixed 2 year tariff, which I took out quickly in October 2021 when my Supplier failed, ends I will be paying 55% more than I asm now.  Had I not switched rapidly the overall cost for the 2 year period sould hav been worse!!   

Right... and changing this obscure small process won't change that history or their behaviour. 

Those customers STILL won't switch when given the opportunity. 

Qyburn

PowerDev said:
Would you please read the Neo link I posted properly.  On 11 July 2022 Ofgem appointed Octopus as SoLR for UKIEH, not NEO.  

Neo relied on UKIEH for their domestic supply licence. Hence their customers were shifted over with effect from 9th July, even though Neo continued trading and (i believe) supplying non domestic customers. So not quite a standard supplier-goes-bust SOLR but it's really not clear what you are complaining about.

t0rt0ise

I've reread your first post but it is so waffly it's hard to know what your actual point is. If it's that the SoLR process takes too long, then I agree. I left the SoLR companies (separate gas and electricity) as soon as I could, that is as soon as they'd set up my new account. I got my credit back from EDF by cheque in due course. British Gas however forgot to complete the process but as it's in my favour I will leave it alone. So yes, I agree the system is broken.

PowerDev

 A lot of people with failed Suppliers would have been considerably better off if they had switched to fixed tariffs in 2021 before the SoLR processes completed.  More money in the SoLRs back accounts.  My point, as should be obvious from the initial post, is that OFGEMs advice not to switch away from the SoLR immediately can be against the Customers best interests. Understanding 'Time in two dimensions', Lead and Target, is important. "Where we are and where we are going".  Noting that the two Suppliers ( A and C ) I cite as failing had only been set up towards the end of the last decade and thus their Customers were those who were prepared to switch... 

My first Supplier (A) failure in January 2021 meant my Electricity tariff went up from 12.45p/kWh to the SoLR (supplier B ) Variable tariff of 17.73.   Supplier C actually emailed Supplier A's customers and I switched to their fixed rate of 15.44p/kWh, initiated before the SoLR process was complete but not executed until the end of April. Supplier A actually issued the final Customer bills in April so my credit was passed to SoLR Supplier B and credited against the energy charges in their final bill to me.     

When Supplier C ceased trading in September 2021 I quickly grabbed (Major) Supplier E's Fixed 2 year tariff at 20.67p/kWh.  The Supplier D as SoLR tariff (Variable) at that time was 22.53p/kWh but I could see that was going to hike.  Thus by the time Supplier C issued the final bills in February 2022,  the cheapest remaining fixed tariff was 44p/kWh and of course the Cap was needed to hold Variable rates down to 35p/kWh. 

You've seen the comments from the two of us who were customers of Supplier C and switched rapidly when that Supplier failed.  The Customer D SoLR process did not identify us as Customers of Supplier C. I didn't have too much trouble in sorting things by email exchange with Supplier D's Customer relations dept.  Including them sending me the full database extract (all fields, as they appreciated my knowledgeability) which showed why D hadn't identified me as a customer of C. 

I've just found the emails again;
When Supplier D did the full extract of records that showed my assignment to C as from 28 April 21 and then to E from 4th October 2021.  The original faulty extract process had been run after 4 October 2021 and just looked for the latest record.  Ad thus ignored my assignment to C.
And on a chat exchange in November 2021, D's Agent also informed me that OFGEM had realised the issue.

The other observation of course is that, if a lot of Failing Supplier customers acted as the two of us did and grabbed Fixed Tariff Offers rapidly, the suppliers offering those (including E) would probably have pulled them off the Market more rapidly!
In the situation where the Wholesale Prices were increasing rapidly after 10 years (nearly) steady and eroding tight Supplier Cash Margins and thus causing multiple failures.  And of course hiking the Tariff prices on Offer......

Just wondering what Martin's advice was about this in 2021.  Couldn't find much on the Forum, hence this post.

Qyburn

PowerDev said:

 
My first Supplier (A) failure in January 2021 meant my Electricity tariff went up from 12.45p/kWh to the SoLR (supplier B ) Variable tariff of 17.73.   Supplier C actually emailed Supplier A's customers 

I don't see why you can't name the suppliers, assuming you do actually know their names. Aside from that, how could supplier "C" have contact details for "A"'s customers? This is starting to sound pretty far fetched, maybe referring to hypothetical and not real scenarios.

PowerDev

Qyburn said:

PowerDev said:

 
My first Supplier (A) failure in January 2021 meant my Electricity tariff went up from 12.45p/kWh to the SoLR (supplier B ) Variable tariff of 17.73.   Supplier C actually emailed Supplier A's customers 

I don't see why you can't name the suppliers, assuming you do actually know their names. Aside from that, how could supplier "C" have contact details for "A"'s customers? This is starting to sound pretty far fetched, maybe referring to hypothetical and not real scenarios.

As you can see from the rest of the post, Suppliers can interrogate the National Database in general.  Thus for instance D could see both the records assigning me to C then E. 

It did seem a bit odd that C contacted us ( A's customers) while the transfer process from A to SoLR B was still in progress although I cant find that email.  I actually conducted the switch to C using the MSE Energy Club comparator to check there weren't any better fixed deals.   

The switching process from A to SoLR B was quite fraught when A's website went down while we were being asked to enter meter readings on it to get the final bills and changeover sorted.  Reinforces the points that the switching process can be tricky. 

Also issues where the Industry Check Estimates for customer meter reading values at time of switch are out of line with the Customer Actual readings; I've bumped into that issue previously with an old Supplier using the Industry value and the New Supplier using my lower value; overlap which would have caused some units to be charged twice. New supplier had to credit me at their charge rate for the overlap units. 
The reason for the Industry Check figure is to stop customers entering a deliberately low reading when leaving one Supplier for a better deal with another, or vice versa. 
Hence the advice to take photos of your readings; make sure the Meter number is also clearly visible.  

A = Simplicity
B = British Gas Evolve SoLR for A
C = Peoples Energy
D = British Gas SoLR for C
E = Eon, trading using the Sainsbury brand name.  

Using the letters makes the posts shorter.

PowerDev

And for interest, on Friday OFGEM are due to announce the new Cap figures running from Oct 1 to Dec 31.
Cornwall Insight have some predictions as to what the values might be, not just for Q42023 but also Q1,2 and 3 of 2024.  Google    Cornwall Insight Predictions and Insights   

CSI_Yorkshire

PowerDev said:

And for interest, on Friday OFGEM are due to announce the new Cap figures running from Oct 1 to Dec 31.
Cornwall Insight have some predictions as to what the values might be, not just for Q42023 but also Q1,2 and 3 of 2024.  Google    Cornwall Insight Predictions and Insights   

We are well aware.  The CI predictions have been discussed on this forum for many many months.

Qyburn

PowerDev said:
As you can see from the rest of the post, Suppliers can interrogate the National Database in general.  

I'm not sure I believe that. Why would they system allow a supplier access to the personal details of their competitors' customers?  Right down to email addresses.