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Missing passengers equals missed connection, airline say not liable

Hi all, just wondering if anyone has experienced something similar (I've googled and searched to no specific avail). 

My partner and I were attending our friends wedding in Italy and had booked connecting flights from Manchester to Brussels then to Naples. 1hr 20 between flights, all booked on 1 ticket with Brussels Airlines. Personally I wouldn't have booked those flights as connections that short wouldn't have sat well with me, but alas, my partner booked it all (I normally book everything, this was he first and last time!) and I knew nothing as it transpired he was asking me to marry him out there and I was blissfully unaware of all the plans.

 Anyway, the flight from Manchester took off 1hr late after many announcements from the pilot on board stating the reason being 12 passengers were missing. So they had to wait for 12 passengers or retreave their 14 suitcases from the aircraft. The 12 passengers then turned up 1hr late strolling on like nothing happened. 

We made up some time in the air but still landed with only 35 mins to make the next flight, received no assistance upon getting to Brussels other than the staff telling us our boarding gate number as they knew we had an imminent connection, queued to get off the plane for over 10 mins, no warning of how far the gate was (turned out literally the opposite end of the airport, couldn't have been further away) literally sprinted all the way (waited 5 mins at passport control) arrived dripping in sweat to find the gate closed 5 mins before scheduled take off and zero staff there at all. Plane was still attached to the boarding ramp, as was the fuel. Scheduled take off was 9.35am, we arrived at the gate 9.30am. 2 staff finally appeared at 9.45am, aircraft still there attached, telling us the pilot was refusing us and we'd already been booked onto a flight later in the day to Frankfurt then to Naples.

They acknowledged our delay from the previous flight but said that wasn't taken into account and it was just a no to boarding. Also stated our suitcase wasn't on the flight (so maybe they knew we wouldn't make it?)

We arrived over 7hrs late to Naples. We'd booked at 100 euro transfer to Amalfi through booking.com - who said we couldn't transfer the booking to later nor could we get a refund, so lost that money. 

And we obviously lost a day (1 day of 5) and my partners meticulous marriage proposal went down the pan with other  bookings he'd made for that day.

I fired off a claim form through Brussels Airlines website, and they've replied to say the reason for delay was "airport restrictions" therefore they aren't liable and case closed. (FWIW, I've got standard rebooking/ auto emails from the day it happened where they regret to inform us of our new updated booking details and apologise for the inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding etc)

My main gripe with all this is the reason for the delay was 1hr of waiting for missing passengers, but then the pilot of our connecting flight waiting MINUS 15 minutes for us knowing we were delayed and checked in, and in fact even less of waiting for us as that flight didn't even leave on time anyway.

Tldr, sorry for the length, but if the reason for the delay was due to waiting for missing passengers, can the airline deny compensation, even when they offered no assistance, in fact quite the opposite of assisting? What's our next move if they've just refused with the vague reason of "airport restrictions"? 

Many thanks if you made it that far! 
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Comments

  • eskbanker
    eskbanker Posts: 35,388 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    'Airport restrictions' is undoubtedly very vague - could it perhaps relate to security problems that caused the 12 passengers to arrive late, although the rest of the passengers presumably coped?  My understanding is that airlines won't be particularly tolerant and will offload passengers fairly quickly, so if they waited for an hour then that would suggest that there's more to this than meets the eye.  Or it could be air traffic control restrictions?

    All you can realistically do is to push back on the airline's rejection, seeking further detail, and if/when you get their final response, you can escalate to their ADR provider, which I believe is https://soep-online.de/en/
  • eskbanker said:
    'Airport restrictions' is undoubtedly very vague - could it perhaps relate to security problems that caused the 12 passengers to arrive late, although the rest of the passengers presumably coped?  My understanding is that airlines won't be particularly tolerant and will offload passengers fairly quickly, so if they waited for an hour then that would suggest that there's more to this than meets the eye.  Or it could be air traffic control restrictions?

    All you can realistically do is to push back on the airline's rejection, seeking further detail, and if/when you get their final response, you can escalate to their ADR provider, which I believe is https://soep-online.de/en/
    Thanks for replying, appreciate it greatly. The missing passengers appeared to be 2 unconnected groups/families, and the pilot stated 14 bags of theirs needed to come off as it's a security rule. Which is understandable I suppose. But what's not understandable is that the announcements about the missing passengers and the need to remove their bags only started at the scheduled take off time and continued for a hour (can't complain about the pilots communication tbf, it was honest and frequent) so why were these people not denied boarding at desk closure time like we were in Brussels (15 mins before scheduled take off normally?) and their bags being immediately located and removed 15 mins before take off? I couldnt see or hear any mad baggage activity outside the plane for that 1hr either. As far as it seemed, intention of their bags being removed only started wayyyy after the boarding gate should have closed. It's kind of like there was so many passengers missing that the pilot thought it was worth waiting for them in hope they'd surely turn up within minutes (presume there was constant tannoys for them) rather than deal with their bags/admin. So then this would surely be the airlines fault, but how can I prove it! I'm suspecting the vague "airport restrictions" might be referring to/covering the rule that bags can't fly without passengers but is my argument that that process should've started at the same time as the gate should've shut a legit one? 
  • eskbanker
    eskbanker Posts: 35,388 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    You're comparing two different scenarios, i.e. how they treat late passengers whose baggage has already been loaded into the hold will differ from those without that, but I wouldn't get bogged down in your perceptions of their boarding processes, and would just focus on whether or not they're liable to pay compensation for the delay, in terms of their obligations under the regulations.
  • You're right, I think I'll just push back on their rejection, especially as it's so vague. Thanks for your input 😊
  • It would probably have taken too long to unload, sort, and reload your bags at the transfer anyway, so I can see why they wouldn't have waited. It wouldn't have been a 10 minute delay, and they couldn't foresee how long it would take before they could push back.

    However, late passengers isn't a very good excuse. It's a common thing for airlines to deal with, i.e. they can't make the defence that it was out of their control. Dealing with late passengers is a core part of their day-to-day operations.
  • lolamancity
    lolamancity Posts: 210 Forumite
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    edited 24 January pm31 4:59PM

    However, late passengers isn't a very good excuse. It's a common thing for airlines to deal with, i.e. they can't make the defence that it was out of their control. Dealing with late passengers is a core part of their day-to-day operations.
    I would agree, hard to say for certain, but I'm 99% sure the boarding gate didn't shut 15 mins prior to take off as it states it does so someone made the decision to leave it open and wait, and subsequently take too long to commence removing bags, which surely isn't an extraordinary circumstance.

    No reply back again from the airline anyway so guessing I'll need to esculate soon 
  • Caz3121
    Caz3121 Posts: 15,737 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Often in these situations they will start looking for the bags to offload and if they can get the bags located before the passengers turn up then they will go without the passengers. If the passengers turn up before the bags are located and offloaded it is usually quicker to let them on and leave avoiding any further delay.
    It makes no sense to not start trying to locate the bags and just wait...passengers may have taken ill and not even in airport.
    It is a hard one as if they had denied the passengers and then left after bags eventually offloaded they could likely call exceptional circumstances due to no-show passengers/security issue
  • eskbanker
    eskbanker Posts: 35,388 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    I agree with OP - having to remove hold baggage due to passengers not presenting themselves at the gate may be something outside the airline's direct control, but I can't believe it satisfies the criteria for extraordinary circumstances, as it must happen pretty frequently and therefore be regarded as an inherent aspect of airline operations.

    However, in this case, the airline have cited 'airport restrictions' as the reason for declining the claim....
  • An update - filed the case with Söp who replied this today:

    With your conciliation request dated 16.08.2023 you have made a claim against Brussels Airlines amounting to 800.00 EUR. Brussels Airlines informed us that the claim is fully acknowledged without the recognition of a legal obligation (payment amounting to 800.00 EUR). 

    This settles the case without the need for a conciliation process including a legal examination by söp due to the “immediate recognition“ according to § 9 (3) söp_Rules of Procedure.

    We consider your case as closed and thank you for your confidence.

    We would be grateful if you could briefly share your experience with söp on Google reviews or Trustpilot.

    Further proceedings will now take place directly between you and the airline. Brussels Airlines will contact you or process the payment directly and therefore you do not have to take any further steps. If you have not received a payment after six weeks, we can remind the airline.


    Not sure what happens now tbh, I doubt Brussels Airlines are going to be skipping to get back in touch with us directly to arrange payment! 


  • Thanks for the update.
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