Universal Credit and Self Emplyment please can someone help explain the minimum income floor ect

nbdrums1

Hi I am self emplyed,

I Have a joint claim with my wife she is employed and earns around £800 a month, we have 2 kids (6&13) I am self employed and earn around 1200-1400 a month, but trying to build.

I have had the first 12 months with no bother but now have been moved to weekly appointments as my earnings need to hit 2 thresholds, please can someone explain how this works? they said on the phone but it was really confusing.

I am trying to raise my income so I can stop this UC claim, 

thanks

kaMelo

As you're a couple it can get complicated.

In short both you and your partner have individual earnings thresholds, these are added together to create your couples earnings threshold. If both of you earn more than your individual earnings thresholds then your total earnings are what UC  use to calculate how much you qualify for.

If you as self employed fall below your threshold then your earnings are added together with your partners earnings. If this total is higher than your couples threshold then nothing further happens and this is the figure used to calculate your UC. If however this total is below your couples threshold then your partners earnings in excess of their personal threshold reduces your MIF by the same amount. Your UC is calculate on your reduced MIF and your partners earnings added together.

If both of you fail to reach your individual earnings thresholds then your MIF is added to your partners earnings and this is used to calculate your UC. Your partner would probably be subject to work search requirements or other as their earnings are below their earnings threshold..



https://revenuebenefits.org.uk/universal-credit/guidance/entitlement-to-uc/self-employment/minimum-income-floor/#Couples and the MIF

If you want some in depth reading;
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1169436/admh4.pdf


Edited to agree with @huckster, as gainfully self employed you should have no need for appointments.

huckster

Also confused.  Does not sound correct.

If you were found gainfully self-employed and had the minimum income floor  (MIF) applied, then at the 12 month point where the start up period ends, the Job Centre should change the work group on your claim to Working Enough.  You then don't need Job Centre appointments, as the MIF would be applied to every assessment period as the minimum self-employed earnings level that would be used to calculate UC award statements.

So I would question the need for the appointments, if the the MIF applies now that the start up has ended.  Send  a journal message to Work Coach raising this question.

nbdrums1

kaMelo said:

As you're a couple it can get complicated.

In short both you and your partner have individual earnings thresholds, these are added together to create your couples earnings threshold. If both of you earn more than your individual earnings thresholds then your total earnings are what UC  use to calculate how much you qualify for.

If you as self employed fall below your threshold then your earnings are added together with your partners earnings. If this total is higher than your couples threshold then nothing further happens and this is the figure used to calculate your UC. If however this total is below your couples threshold then your partners earnings in excess of their personal threshold reduces your MIF by the same amount. Your UC is calculate on your reduced MIF and your partners earnings added together.

If both of you fail to reach your individual earnings thresholds then your MIF is added to your partners earnings and this is used to calculate your UC. Your partner would probably be subject to work search requirements or other as their earnings are below their earnings threshold..



https://revenuebenefits.org.uk/universal-credit/guidance/entitlement-to-uc/self-employment/minimum-income-floor/#Couples and the MIF

If you want some in depth reading;
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1169436/admh4.pdf


Edited to agree with @huckster, as gainfully self employed you should have no need for appointments.

Thanks but I am even more confused after reading thishuckster said:

Also confused.  Does not sound correct.

If you were found gainfully self-employed and had the minimum income floor  (MIF) applied, then at the 12 month point where the start up period ends, the Job Centre should change the work group on your claim to Working Enough.  You then don't need Job Centre appointments, as the MIF would be applied to every assessment period as the minimum self-employed earnings level that would be used to calculate UC award statements.

So I would question the need for the appointments, if the the MIF applies now that the start up has ended.  Send  a journal message to Work Coach raising this question.

Yes that's what I thought, I don't really understand it, she has booked 3 telephone appointments over the next 3 weeks to save me going in I just don't get why I have to considering I am gainfully self employed.

kaMelo

Sorry, didn't mean to confuse. I was trying to explain the two thresholds you mention. You both have individual earnings thresholds which when added together are your earnings threshold as a couple.

nbdrums1

kaMelo said:

Sorry, didn't mean to confuse. I was trying to explain the two thresholds you mention. You both have individual earnings thresholds which when added together are your earnings threshold as a couple.

No worries on a second read through I get what you are saying and I do really appreciate you taking the time to explain it!!

When I was on the phone to the work coach she seemed confused by it all also!! 

huckster

Just send a journal message saying that as the MIF applies following the end of the start up period, that no job centre appointments are required, as they should have applied the correct work group as per their guidance.

Sounds like the Work Coach is new to self-employment and has not understood the process guidance.

tomtom256

I would check your journal and see what letter was uploaded following your Gateway Intervention, as that should clear up if they deemed you to be gainfully self-employed or not. The decision isn't your's to make and a self-employed work coach would have made it. You should have a UCD151 or something similar depending on the decision.

Normally though, you would have a start-up period of 12 months with 4 self-employed review appointments, during those 12 months and the MIF would have been applied at the end of the 12th assesment period/first day of the 13th assessment period, if they had deemed you to be gainfully self-employed.

R200

I’m hearing my JCs are now making work search requirements even though people meet the MIF.

some on soft touch are still being pressured to increase hours or earnings.

if this is soft Touch I’d hate to think of what hard touch is

huckster

@R200

They cannot do that without change in legislation. If a claimant is found gainfully self employed and MIF applied, their work group changes to Working Enough. They cannot be required to attend appointments to search for other work, as self employment is their main job.

The only claimants required to attend work related appointments are those in Intensive Work Search, Work Preparation and Work Focused Interview.

R200

There has been talk of change in legislation but I don’t know how much of it has gone through 

one change is many households who didn’t used to be in soft touch now are or even some on soft touch were left alone now are getting emails please look at your journal as there are requirements