Ideal Logic Combi 24 no hot water or heat

FataVerde

FreeBear said:

ThisIsWeird said: Yes, in order to validate the warranty, almost certainly a 'powerflush' or some other form of chemical flush should be carried out. And, again also almost certainly, a magnetic filter will need adding to the return pipe to the boiler to continue catching any remaining sludge.

Mandatory requirements for a warranty -

• System flush - Chemical as a minimum, A power flush could be done if you want (still uses chemicals)
  Magnetic filter fitted to the return.
  Scale inhibitor (Calmag, Fernox, or similar) on the cold water feed.
  Completed Gas Installation certificate.
• The installation registered within (I think) 30 days with Viessmann
  

Not sure if Viessmann insists on an "approved" & trained installer like WB does - I hope not, as the guy that did mine failed to configure the boiler, and there are a number of small details that leave much to be desired.

All of these were include in the installation price. I just need to make sure he actually does everything and connects my controls over opentherm. If I later have problems with warranty due to faulty installation, I suppose I can take it up with Heatable. I noticed they now reduced the Viessmann price not by the price I got but about 300 cheaper. They realised at least 3 othe companies have cheaper prices online.

Power flushing was an extra at over #200 and I wasn't sure if I really need it.

What's included?

The prices which you've got on screen are fixed, include VAT and won't change.

• Removal, safe disposal and recycling of your existing combi boiler, and installation of a new combi boiler, keeping it in the same location
• Installation of the required flue incuding any extensions, elbows or other required accessories
• All required alterations to pipework and fixings
• Chemical flush of your home's existing pipework and radiators
• Chemical inhibitor treatment to protect your central heating system and keep it working efficiently, for longer
• Parts and labour warranty, direct with the manufacturer
• 12 month workmanship warranty, direct with Heatable
• Flue kit, flue extensions, elbows and any other required accessories
• Magnetic boiler filter
• Wireless heating controls (option to upgrade to a Smart Thermostat during checkout)
• Re-balance of your entire heating system
• New installation, or upgrade of a condensate pipe (if required)
• Mains gas pipe upgrade from the meter (if required)
• Required electrical works
• CP1 certificate
• Post-install building control and warranty registration
• Any required external brickwork

FataVerde

ThisIsWeird said:

Good news, FV, and a cracking price!

Yes, in order to validate the warranty, almost certainly a 'powerflush' or some other form of chemical flush should be carried out. And, again also almost certainly, a magnetic filter will need adding to the return pipe to the boiler to continue catching any remaining sludge.

What I would do is to 'chat' or email Vitodens (never heard of them :-) ) and tell them you are having the X model installed soon, and what should the installer do in order to comply with the T&Cs.

I never heard of Viessmann/Vitodens either. No local GS recommended it but they are apparently the leader in boilers in Europe and there are quite a few great videos on this boiler and its specs.

CSI_Yorkshire

FataVerde said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Good news, FV, and a cracking price!

Yes, in order to validate the warranty, almost certainly a 'powerflush' or some other form of chemical flush should be carried out. And, again also almost certainly, a magnetic filter will need adding to the return pipe to the boiler to continue catching any remaining sludge.

What I would do is to 'chat' or email Vitodens (never heard of them :-) ) and tell them you are having the X model installed soon, and what should the installer do in order to comply with the T&Cs.

I never heard of Viessmann/Vitodens either. No local GS recommended it but they are apparently the leader in boilers in Europe and there are quite a few great videos on this boiler and its specs.

Boilers are very parochial as you've found out - we had Potterton and Worcester, they had Bosch and Viessmann.

FreeBear

CSI_Yorkshire said:

FataVerde said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Good news, FV, and a cracking price!

Yes, in order to validate the warranty, almost certainly a 'powerflush' or some other form of chemical flush should be carried out. And, again also almost certainly, a magnetic filter will need adding to the return pipe to the boiler to continue catching any remaining sludge.

What I would do is to 'chat' or email Vitodens (never heard of them :-) ) and tell them you are having the X model installed soon, and what should the installer do in order to comply with the T&Cs.

I never heard of Viessmann/Vitodens either. No local GS recommended it but they are apparently the leader in boilers in Europe and there are quite a few great videos on this boiler and its specs.

Boilers are very parochial as you've found out - we had Potterton and Worcester, they had Bosch and Viessmann.

In the Netherlands, Intergas are one of the bigger names - Did look at fitting one here as there is very little inside to go wrong. But the Viessmann was coming in at some £600 cheaper.

FataVerde

I heard of Intergas from a video by urban plumbers, but yes, I couldn't find it anywhere for sale.

FreeBear

FataVerde said: I'm getting the Vitodens installed this Sat. I managed to get Heatable to match a much cheaper quote I found online so I'm now getting the installation for a fixed price of £2,095

So how did the install go ?

Or is it going to take three days spread over a week like mine did....

FataVerde

FreeBear said:

FataVerde said: I'm getting the Vitodens installed this Sat. I managed to get Heatable to match a much cheaper quote I found online so I'm now getting the installation for a fixed price of £2,095

So how did the install go ?

Or is it going to take three days spread over a week like mine did....

Well, I had a cowboy installer yesterday who came in at 8.15am and left at 3pm. He barely communicated so I just told him to connect the existing Heatlink over OpenTherm and asked some questions. I'm already used to GS trying to fob me off because I am a woman. I'm not too pleased because:

1. I'm not sure he actually did the chemical flush and the chemical inhibitor treatment. He came in with a MagnaClean box and installed the Magnetic filter. While he was packing to leave I checked the MC1 and MC3 bottles for the brand for future maintenance and was surprised they were both full. It's possible he used some other stuff he had, but I'm not sure at all. He didn't balance the system afterwards. I mean he started the heat and I told him one of the living room rads had not heated up like the rest. He fiddled with the valve a bit and said it's fine.

So today, I bled the rads and Rad 2, which bled rusty water while I was trying to get pressure down on my old Ideal boiler, bled clear water. Rad 4 (which was not heating up) and 5 down the line produced rusty water.


Not sure if there is any other way to check the use of chemical flush and inhibitor. Any suggestions of alternative ways? I plan to complain to heatable. They apparently have a 30-day guarantee on workmanship.

2. The LED controls on the boiler do not work. The mode icon works when I press, but the up and down arrows adjusting heat and water temp don't really work. Sometimes I'd see the value went down a few points but it takes a few minutes for the change to appear.

3. I'm attaching a pic of the Heatlink connections. Does it look like it's properly linked? To me it seems so because he used OT1 and OT2 but just in case I am missing something. 

He kept insisting the Nest can't control water temperature for combi boilers, but nest instructions say 3rd gen Nest can do it so I reset the Nest myself to OpenTherm and picked water temp. Not sure if it works with the boiler because  the controls don't work to see if he set the boiler on opentherm.





4. Not sure on the condensing pipe: I had one outside that he would have needed a high ladder to replace. He seemed unwilling to deal with that so he just basically installed the pipe inside. See pic. He said the previous pipe was not installed according to regulations and that they try to bring the pipe inside whenever possible so it does not freeze in winter.





5. He filled out a benchmark form claiming he did all sorts of things he didn't like install thermostatic valves. My old rads could have used replacement valves, but this is probably minor.

Thanks!

FreeBear

FataVerde said: Not sure if there is any other way to check the use of chemical flush and inhibitor. Any suggestions of alternative ways? I plan to complain to heatable. They apparently have a 30-day guarantee on workmanship.

2. The LED controls on the boiler do not work. The mode icon works when I press, but the up and down arrows adjusting heat and water temp don't really work. Sometimes I'd see the value went down a few points but it takes a few minutes for the change to appear.

3. I'm attaching a pic of the Heatlink connections. Does it look like it's properly linked? To me it seems so because he used OT1 and OT2 but just in case I am missing something. 

He kept insisting the Nest can't control water temperature for combi boilers, but nest instructions say 3rd gen Nest can do it so I reset the Nest myself to OpenTherm and picked water temp. Not sure if it works with the boiler because  the controls don't work to see if he set the boiler on opentherm.

Testing of inhibitor can be done with one of these kits - https://www.cityplumbing.co.uk/p/sentinel-x100-quick-test-kit-x100t-qt-gb/p/802006 - Should work with any brand of inhibitor, and at £2.58 for two tests, cheap enough. You could send a sample of the water to Fernox, but I think they charge around £50 for a lab report.

If the boiler has been configured to work with OpenTherm, then you shouldn't be able to adjust any temperatures from the front panel. Getting in to the menu to see what each option has been set to is a bit of a pain. You could download the ViGuide, and once paired with the boiler (another pita of menu options to get there), you can check to see how the boiler is configured. You don't need an account or training to get/use the app (there is an option to use it without logging in). The ViCare app is another one you could try - This is intended for end customers (such as yourself) to use, and I think you can tweak temperatures with it. I have my boiler hooked up to my home automation system, so don't need an app.

Have a read of the installation manual, and it will guide you through the combination of button presses to access the config menu and which options do what.

Current regs for condensate says 32mm minimum pipe when routed outside, 22-25mm if internal. I have a bit of 22mm plastic pipe shoved through the wall and draining in to a gully just inside my garage - I'm pretty certain it should be 32mm, as the garage is not heated, and stuff does freeze out there. A bunch of stuff wasn't done by the "engineer" on my boiler, including setting up the OpenTherm thermostat. Had to find the menu option myself and configure it, along with a few other parameters myself.

Also had fictitious comments on the paperwork - The worst one was on the DP12 (Gas Safe certificate). He claimed to have visually checked earth bonding on the gas pipe. An impossible feat, as he had fitted new gas pipe from the meter to the boiler and didn't connect any earth clamps or wires.

Gone past any 30 day warranty period for workmanship, but if any issues are raised at the first service, I will be giving the supplier hell for it. If they won't play ball, I'll take it up with my credit card company. Have already taken them to task over the earth bonding...

FataVerde

FreeBear said:

FataVerde said: Not sure if there is any other way to check the use of chemical flush and inhibitor. Any suggestions of alternative ways? I plan to complain to heatable. They apparently have a 30-day guarantee on workmanship.

2. The LED controls on the boiler do not work. The mode icon works when I press, but the up and down arrows adjusting heat and water temp don't really work. Sometimes I'd see the value went down a few points but it takes a few minutes for the change to appear.

3. I'm attaching a pic of the Heatlink connections. Does it look like it's properly linked? To me it seems so because he used OT1 and OT2 but just in case I am missing something. 

He kept insisting the Nest can't control water temperature for combi boilers, but nest instructions say 3rd gen Nest can do it so I reset the Nest myself to OpenTherm and picked water temp. Not sure if it works with the boiler because  the controls don't work to see if he set the boiler on opentherm.

Testing of inhibitor can be done with one of these kits - https://www.cityplumbing.co.uk/p/sentinel-x100-quick-test-kit-x100t-qt-gb/p/802006 - Should work with any brand of inhibitor, and at £2.58 for two tests, cheap enough. You could send a sample of the water to Fernox, but I think they charge around £50 for a lab report.

If the boiler has been configured to work with OpenTherm, then you shouldn't be able to adjust any temperatures from the front panel. Getting in to the menu to see what each option has been set to is a bit of a pain. You could download the ViGuide, and once paired with the boiler (another pita of menu options to get there), you can check to see how the boiler is configured. You don't need an account or training to get/use the app (there is an option to use it without logging in). The ViCare app is another one you could try - This is intended for end customers (such as yourself) to use, and I think you can tweak temperatures with it. I have my boiler hooked up to my home automation system, so don't need an app.

Have a read of the installation manual, and it will guide you through the combination of button presses to access the config menu and which options do what.

Current regs for condensate says 32mm minimum pipe when routed outside, 22-25mm if internal. I have a bit of 22mm plastic pipe shoved through the wall and draining in to a gully just inside my garage - I'm pretty certain it should be 32mm, as the garage is not heated, and stuff does freeze out there. A bunch of stuff wasn't done by the "engineer" on my boiler, including setting up the OpenTherm thermostat. Had to find the menu option myself and configure it, along with a few other parameters myself.

Also had fictitious comments on the paperwork - The worst one was on the DP12 (Gas Safe certificate). He claimed to have visually checked earth bonding on the gas pipe. An impossible feat, as he had fitted new gas pipe from the meter to the boiler and didn't connect any earth clamps or wires.

Gone past any 30 day warranty period for workmanship, but if any issues are raised at the first service, I will be giving the supplier hell for it. If they won't play ball, I'll take it up with my credit card company. Have already taken them to task over the earth bonding...

This is all so very useful! I need to get that test kit even if to just put my mind at ease. 

On the Viessmann LCD control, there's a great video by a guy who set it on opentherm and I managed to get into commissioning assistant with the correct press combo. It was already set to OpenTherm, but the arrows did not work in this menu either so it's either an installation or an LCD fault. I literally had to punch the arrows hard to move. The other icons like the mode work with a slight pressure.

He had not set my Nest to Open therm (it was still on the on/off setting) and despite insisting the Nest cannot control water temp on a combi, I followed the video that recommended using the Equipment option on the Nest to set water temp and enable modulation.

FreeBear

FataVerde said: He had not set my Nest to Open therm (it was still on the on/off setting) and despite insisting the Nest cannot control water temp on a combi, I followed the video that recommended using the Equipment option on the Nest to set water temp and enable modulation.

At least you had a thermostat that was sort of controlling the boiler - My thermostat got connected to the wrong terminals inside the boiler, so would never have work had he set everything up to run OpenTherm...

Tip - Set the Nest to disable hot water (if it can do that), and then the boiler won't be firing up every few hours to keep the water inside hot. It will still power up as soon as you open a tap. Using OpenTherm disables Eco Mode and hands the responsibility over to the thermostat.