Ideal Logic Combi 24 no hot water or heat

ThisIsWeird

That seems pretty comprehensive - it does clearly say all parts and labour. It also says a partial refund if they can't fix it, but no suggestion as to the amount.

If you analyse what this actually implies, it's clear they won't fix every boiler, so there will come a break point where they claim they 'can't fix it'! I mean, in theory they can fix any boiler - by replacing all of its parts. But they won't.

There must be T&Cs somewhere. I recall a Domestic & General (I think) one wouldn't cover the main exchanger (fair enough) or the EV (what?!). So prob worth asking tobesure tobesure.

No idea what nocalloutfeegasservice is.

FataVerde

Does this mean I could be £350 short and still with a broken boiler? Will give Ideal a call in the morning to see where they have T&Cs.

The boiler is 13-years and a half old so I'm considering whether it's not a better investment to just get a new Vaillant installed instead. If it does get fixed for £350, who knows what other parts can go bad in the next few years?

ThisIsWeird

FataVerde said:

Does this mean I could be £350 short and still with a broken boiler? Will give Ideal a call in the morning to see where they have T&Cs.

The boiler is 13-years and a half old so I'm considering whether it's not a better investment to just get a new Vaillant installed instead. If it does get fixed for £350, who knows what other parts can go bad in the next few years?

Yes, it's a gamble. And £350 will make a (smallish) dent in the cost of a new boiler - assume £2-3k. 
Worst case is that you shouldn't be hit for the full whack if they 'cannot' fix it - you should get some back. Ask how much...
If they cannot fix it, they'll likely say they'll deduct the whole amount from the cost of a new boiler.
Bottom line, tho', is that you'll never know the actual discounts - the only way to compare is by the figure at the bottom of the page.

NannaH

They usually cover up to 3 replacement parts,  at least Worcester bosch and Vaillant do.
It will also be an accredited Ideal specialist that carries out the repair,  they should know if it’s worth fixing before they commence.
A new expansion vessel isn’t normally expensive but you might need more than that. 

House_owner

I had this fixed price repair done from ideal boilers, and they replaced the heat exchanger and another part within the £350, so well worth asking them about it.

FataVerde

I spoke to Ideal, who said if they can't fix the boiler, they'd keep £99 and return the rest so it's basically a £100 call out charge. I'll start with a local gas engineer, from a recommended firm around here, who says they don't charge for diagnosing the problem. After two fails, I'm not convinced they'll figure it out but I need a specialist at this point. Their diagnosis will hopefully help me decide whether to repair with them, Ideal or get a new boiler.

I also think I found price parts for ideal somewhere and the expansion vessel was £300 so well worth a fixed price repair.

FataVerde

The local gas engineer who actually did the original boiler service a year ago came by. He opened the boiler and spent a few minutes checking it. The first thing he said is that the heat exchanger would need to be replaced and there are other things that need fixing. Apparently, the expansion vessel is leaking and the interior is crusty everywhere. I asked if the parts could be repaired or need replacing and he said replacing. He was quite vague on the details, just said it's not economic to repair and would recommend a new Ideal combi. He filled out a Warning notice and turned the boiler off.

Tbh, I lost my trust in gas engineers, but his explanation chimes with your suspicions of a problem with the expansion vessel.

What do you think? Time for a new boiler? If so, what boiler would you recommend for a 1BR Victorian flat that will get a loft extension (so another BR and ensuite) in the next 5 to 10 years. Should I get a 24/24 or 30 combi?

I would have liked a 30 combi with higher DHW flow rate, but I measured my mains water flow and it's about 12.5l/m so I guess there is no reason to get a boiler with flow rates over 12-13l/m. What models would you recommend and what other specs should I check?

FreeBear

FataVerde said:  What do you think? Time for a new boiler? If so, what boiler would you recommend for a 1BR Victorian flat that will get a loft extension (so another BR and ensuite) in the next 5 to 10 years. Should I get a 24/24 or 30 combi?

I would have liked a 30 combi with higher DHW flow rate, but I measured my mains water flow and it's about 12.5l/m so I guess there is no reason to get a boiler with flow rates over 12-13l/m. What models would you recommend and what other specs should I check?

The size of a combi will be dictated by your cold water flow rate. At 12l/min, a 30KW boiler would be about right. With a one/two bedroom flat, your CH heating requirement isn't going to be huge, so you need to select a boiler that will modulate down as low as possible.

When I was searching for boilers, the main contenders were Vaillant, Worcester Bosch, Ideal, or Viessmann. The first two were rejected because they didn't support OpenTherm out of the box. I wasn't that impressed with the design of the Ideal, and very few installers would fit an Intergas (another contender). Ended up going with a Viessmann 050-W, and it seems to be working fine, although it is early days to form a lasting opinion. It will modulate down to 3.2KW on heating (at 50°C flow temperature) and go up to 25KW when I really need it (not that it will ever run that hard). Not so impressed with the OpenTherm compatibility - There is supposed to be some data generated by the boiler (flame burn times, pump & DHW starts) that I thought were mandatory, yet the boiler is saying "invalid request". Most people won't care, but I wanted to log the information to assess performance and compare to the old CH system.

For you, the three main criteria will be -

• Reliability & warranty
• Ability to heat hot water @ 12-13l/min flow rate
• CH output range

For the last, you don't want anything too high, or the boiler will end up short cycling which could impact on reliability.

ThisIsWeird

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Boiler-Expansion-Vessel-175551-175413/dp/B09LJ1THHK

The failed exchanger - is this the 'main' one, or the 'secondary' ie the 'plate-to-plate' exchanger? The main one is many £100's, but the P2P can often be had for ~£50-ish.

Tbh, I think a FPR engineer will have a dilemma with your boiler since the insides have been sprayed. I had a FPR arranged for a leaking hydrobloc - a plastic lump with valves which had developed a tiny crack - and the guy came out with his PC and started to go through all the parts that 'needed' replacing; all the sensors and bits adjacent to the HB (great, I thought!), the P2P exchanger (wow! Brill!), a couple of other things (yeeehah!), and then the pump... (Eh? Really?) Yes, he says, it's had water sprayed on it. Tap...tap...tap.. on his keyboard - Oops, it's beyond eco repair. "Can't you remove the pump - it's only a year old and is clearly working fine?!" Nope - can't do.

So, I suspect that the tally of parts for yours will follow the same scene, and be declared BER.

All things considered - including what I think is the unlikelihood of them carrying out the FPR - I guess you are in new boiler territory.

What size? 24kW is really pretty small. But at a mains flow rate of ~12lpm, it's currently ideal - that would allow ~10lpm at the most being heated by the boiler, with a few lpm of cold left over for blending in at the shower.

It doesn't really matter if you are fitting another bedroom and shower, as pretty much all combis - regardless of power - will only serve one shower at a time, and it would require double the mains water flow to manage anything better anyhoo.

Is there any chance that the mains flow rate can be improved? If so, I'd personally be tempted to go to 30kW just for the extra oomph, but at your current mains rate, nah.

Best models? Others will advise :-)

FataVerde

FreeBear said:

FataVerde said:  What do you think? Time for a new boiler? If so, what boiler would you recommend for a 1BR Victorian flat that will get a loft extension (so another BR and ensuite) in the next 5 to 10 years. Should I get a 24/24 or 30 combi?

I would have liked a 30 combi with higher DHW flow rate, but I measured my mains water flow and it's about 12.5l/m so I guess there is no reason to get a boiler with flow rates over 12-13l/m. What models would you recommend and what other specs should I check?

The size of a combi will be dictated by your cold water flow rate. At 12l/min, a 30KW boiler would be about right. With a one/two bedroom flat, your CH heating requirement isn't going to be huge, so you need to select a boiler that will modulate down as low as possible.

When I was searching for boilers, the main contenders were Vaillant, Worcester Bosch, Ideal, or Viessmann. The first two were rejected because they didn't support OpenTherm out of the box. I wasn't that impressed with the design of the Ideal, and very few installers would fit an Intergas (another contender). Ended up going with a Viessmann 050-W, and it seems to be working fine, although it is early days to form a lasting opinion. It will modulate down to 3.2KW on heating (at 50°C flow temperature) and go up to 25KW when I really need it (not that it will ever run that hard). Not so impressed with the OpenTherm compatibility - There is supposed to be some data generated by the boiler (flame burn times, pump & DHW starts) that I thought were mandatory, yet the boiler is saying "invalid request". Most people won't care, but I wanted to log the information to assess performance and compare to the old CH system.

For you, the three main criteria will be -

• Reliability & warranty
• Ability to heat hot water @ 12-13l/min flow rate
• CH output range

For the last, you don't want anything too high, or the boiler will end up short cycling which could impact on reliability.

This is so incredibly useful. How much does OpenTherm compatibility save, I wonder? I looked mainly at Vaillant EcoTec Plus, the premium range for Vaillant, which seems to have good modulation rates. Got the best quotes from Glow Green so far with:

EcoTec Plus 25  £2,095

Modulation (max/min)

1:6.7

Nominal heat output range at 50/30˚C (Condensing mode) 4.2 - 20.4
Domestic hot water flow rate 10.5l/m

EcoTec Plus 32  £2,380 

Modulation (max/min) 1:6.1

Nominal heat output range at 50/30˚C (Condensing mode) 5.7 - 25.7

Domestic hot water flow rate 13l/m

Both come with default warranty of 5 years, which is extended to 12 years if you sign up for their care plan:

"A magnetic filter must be installed on the date of installation and cleaned every 12

months.

3. The flue system is only covered for 12 months after the installation date.

4. In order to obtain a complete full 12 years, warranty the homeowner must agree to use

Glow Green Ltd (Glow Care 100) for the full service obligation of the appliance and

system. This involves the appliance being serviced within every 12 months by Glow

Green Ltd (covered under Glow Care 100). It is the homeowner’s sole responsibility to

book in this service with Glow Green Ltd within this timescale.

5. If the boiler breaks down, we may ask you to pay us a deposit before we visit you to

repair it. We will return the deposit in full if we find a fault that is covered by this warranty.

We may keep the deposit if we cannot access your property at the time we had arranged

with you to visit or we find other conditions of this warranty have not been met. A

responsible adult must be at the property to give our engineer access to the boiler.

6. Glow Green Ltd will not accept liability or responsibility for any fault found on the

existing heating system not forming part of the appliance or any fault arising from causes

other than the original manufacturing defects or workmanship. A charge will be made for

any recurring call outs relating to the exclusions mentioned, chargeable at Glow Green

Ltd’s current normal working hours and emergency out of hours (£72 normal working

hours and £144 emergency out of hours). Prices inc. VAT at 20%.

7. Glow Green Ltd cannot be held responsible for any damage that may arise due to

adverse weather conditions such as frozen condensation outlets, storms, floods or

rainwater down the flue.

8. Glow Green Ltd reserves the right to cancel any service and maintenance contract if a

homeowner does not keep up with the services and maintenance recommendations

made by Glow Green Ltd engineers at any point during the 12 years.

9. Your warranty will be void if you interfere with the heating systems in any way, including

draining down the system.

10. Any decisions made by Glow Green Ltd are final and not subject to change.

11. Should there be a pay increase in the service contract; Glow Green Ltd will notify you 1

month before collecting the payment.

12. Boiler Servicing will usually be carried out during the period April to August inclusive.

Glow Green Ltd will not be obliged to carry out a service outside of this period as

breakdown calls will be given priority. All servicing work is carried out during normal

working hours Monday to Friday. Where a condensing boiler is installed and the

efficiency of the boiler be found to be reduced predominantly caused by fouling of the

heat exchanger Glow Green Ltd reserve the right to charge an additional cost to the

standard service rate, Including charges for additional consumables.

13. Glow Green Ltd may not be held responsible for any delay in provision of spare parts by

suppliers and thus no compensation is payable should this occur. Glow Green Ltd may

supply and fit replacement parts and components which are adequate but not the same

as defective parts.

14. This warranty only relates to the boiler and integrated controls, not to any connected

system or accessories such as time switches, thermostats, motorised valves, external

pumps, external expansion vessels and so on.

15. Any repair carried out under the terms of this warranty does not extend the warranty

beyond its original period.

16. This warranty only applies to boilers bought in and used in the United Kingdom, Republic

of Ireland, Isle of Man or the Channel Islands.

17. Engineers will not carry out repairs if they think accessing the boiler would be a risk to

health and safety.

18. If your boiler is in a cupboard, there must be enough room for the engineer to work (the

minimum area as set out in the installation instructions). We will not accept responsibility

for removing cupboards, kitchen units, trims and so on to gain access for repairs.

19. This warranty does not in any way affect your statutory or legal rights."