Eon Next Economy 7 metering issue

Spoonie_Turtle

QrizB said:

dealyboy said:

"We don't install E7 meters anymore, or have a tariff called ‘Economy 7’." Are they trying to confuse people?

They're right.

They install smart meters (which can be cofigured for dual-rate tariffs with Economy 7 hours) and most of their electricity tariffs include a dual-rate option with seven hours of cheaper-rate electricity.

They just don't call it "Economy 7" any more!

What do they call it then?

(*then - Not in an 'I don't believe you' way, but in a 'huh, that's weird, what name have they chosen instead?' way.)

lilac_dawn

Spoonie_Turtle said:

QrizB said:

dealyboy said:

"We don't install E7 meters anymore, or have a tariff called ‘Economy 7’." Are they trying to confuse people?

They're right.

They install smart meters (which can be cofigured for dual-rate tariffs with Economy 7 hours) and most of their electricity tariffs include a dual-rate option with seven hours of cheaper-rate electricity.

They just don't call it "Economy 7" any more!

What do they call it then?

(*then - Not in an 'I don't believe you' way, but in a 'huh, that's weird, what name have they chosen instead?' way.)

I’ve just looked at my bill… it’s called E7 😂 How stupid, when you can search for economy 7 on their site and they’ll quote for it. 

littleteapot

Spoonie_Turtle said:

QrizB said:

dealyboy said:

"We don't install E7 meters anymore, or have a tariff called ‘Economy 7’." Are they trying to confuse people?

They're right.

They install smart meters (which can be cofigured for dual-rate tariffs with Economy 7 hours) and most of their electricity tariffs include a dual-rate option with seven hours of cheaper-rate electricity.

They just don't call it "Economy 7" any more!

What do they call it then?

(*then - Not in an 'I don't believe you' way, but in a 'huh, that's weird, what name have they chosen instead?' way.)

Makes perfect sense to me and aligns with the TIL

Monkston

dealyboy said:

On the face of it there is also the mismatch between the Eastern (East Midlands) Area (10) which has 7 hours off peak between 23:00 and 07:00 and what E.ON Next are informing you (00:30-07:30). Dumb question alert ... is the 'area code' from a bill definitely '10'? and what part of eastern England is your mother in?

<snip>

One further question ... What was the Supply number (Area & MTC) on a bill before the smart meter was installed?

From original post:
However, the meter is displaying the off-peak night rate tariff in two periods, 22:30 to 00:30 and 02:30 to 07:30.  This means 2 hours (00:30 to 02:30) of the storage heater charging period is occurring in peak day rate, and is inflating winter bills (there was no issue under the old Economy 7 meter..).

Apologies for the delayed reply.

The first two digits of the MPAN number are 10, she lives in South Essex.  The supply number details in her billing for the old meter and new smart meter are identical - area (10) and MTC (142) have not changed.  It has never been a private or business network, and a residential electricity supply was present in her name before it was switched to Economy7 & storage heaters installed.

She can remember the installer back in '97 asking how she would like the off-peak period configured, and opted for 2230-0030 GMT and 0230-0730 GMT.  You could hear the old meter switch over at 2230 GMT with a audible click and the storage heaters would heat.

What's confusing is during the original complaint they've produced an internal record for the old meter showing a TPR record 0030-0730 GMT.  I have never seen this in effect as a tariff at the old or new meter, and don't know where it has come from.  Ultimately, I think this is the root of their problem - they have no record of the split 2+5 off-peak tariff hours and the smart meter installer has configured the ALCS for the region default and/or TPR record of 0030-0730 GMT, rather than the split tariff actually in effect.

The energy ombudsman has accepted the complaint, but I am not hopeful - E.ON Next have just come back with "it was found that there was 2 hours out of the TPR, however, as this is within tolerance, the meter and bill wouldn't be changed".  Well yes.. the tariff is split and not aligned with their record or the ALCS schedule, so of course 2 hours is showing up wrong to them.  But why write it off as 'within tolerance' rather than change the tariff schedule or change the ALCS schedule so that they are aligned?  Also, how the heck is 'upto 2.5hrs is within tolerance & we won't do anything' acceptable for an Economy7 tariff?

Anyway, a technician is being scheduled (to check if the time drift is >2.5hrs and outside tolerance.. which it won't be, because that's not the problem), but hopefully I can get to the bottom of it with them.

QrizB

I don't think anyone has asked this yet.

In your opening post, you said:

However, the meter is displaying the off-peak night rate tariff in two periods, 22:30 to 00:30 and 02:30 to 07:30.

How exactly is the meter displaying this? Have you checked the meter during the 0030-0230 period to confirm which rate is active?

On a related note, if you connect to the Hildebrand Bright app, what hours are displayed there?

Apologies if this has already been covered, my phone isn't the best device for reading through the thread while composing a reply.

Monkston

I drill down into the smart meter menu display (not the IHD, the actual smart meter, though the two are aligned) and select Current Tariff.  The IHD also flashes a 'tariff changing in x seconds' warning as you approach the change. 

I've sat up twice, once in April, and then again a week ago, and observed the tariff either side of 22:30 GMT, 0030 GMT, 0230 GMT, and 0730 GMT.  I have taken corresponding photos for each at 2 mins before, and 2 mins after, demonstrating the tariff unit rate changes.  These photos also show the ALCS closing at 0030 (the switch open icon on the display disappears) and opening at 0730 (the switch open icon reappears on the display).  I have provided this photographic evidence to E.ON Next and yet..

I'll investigate the Hildebrand Bright stuff when i'm next around the meter.

dealyboy

Hi Monkston ... welcome back.

As you may have noticed we slightly deviated from your original post ... sorry about that ... but as they say 'back on topic'  .

dealyboy

Monkston said:

dealyboy said:

On the face of it there is also the mismatch between the Eastern (East Midlands) Area (10) which has 7 hours off peak between 23:00 and 07:00 and what E.ON Next are informing you (00:30-07:30). Dumb question alert ... is the 'area code' from a bill definitely '10'? and what part of eastern England is your mother in?

<snip>

One further question ... What was the Supply number (Area & MTC) on a bill before the smart meter was installed?

From original post:
However, the meter is displaying the off-peak night rate tariff in two periods, 22:30 to 00:30 and 02:30 to 07:30.  This means 2 hours (00:30 to 02:30) of the storage heater charging period is occurring in peak day rate, and is inflating winter bills (there was no issue under the old Economy 7 meter..).

Apologies for the delayed reply.

The first two digits of the MPAN number are 10, she lives in South Essex.  The supply number details in her billing for the old meter and new smart meter are identical - area (10) and MTC (142) have not changed.  It has never been a private or business network, and a residential electricity supply was present in her name before it was switched to Economy7 & storage heaters installed.

She can remember the installer back in '97 asking how she would like the off-peak period configured, and opted for 2230-0030 GMT and 0230-0730 GMT.  You could hear the old meter switch over at 2230 GMT with a audible click and the storage heaters would heat.

What's confusing is during the original complaint they've produced an internal record for the old meter showing a TPR record 0030-0730 GMT.  I have never seen this in effect as a tariff at the old or new meter, and don't know where it has come from.  Ultimately, I think this is the root of their problem - they have no record of the split 2+5 off-peak tariff hours and the smart meter installer has configured the ALCS for the region default and/or TPR record of 0030-0730 GMT, rather than the split tariff actually in effect.

The energy ombudsman has accepted the complaint, but I am not hopeful - E.ON Next have just come back with "it was found that there was 2 hours out of the TPR, however, as this is within tolerance, the meter and bill wouldn't be changed".  Well yes.. the tariff is split and not aligned with their record or the ALCS schedule, so of course 2 hours is showing up wrong to them.  But why write it off as 'within tolerance' rather than change the tariff schedule or change the ALCS schedule so that they are aligned?  Also, how the heck is 'upto 2.5hrs is within tolerance & we won't do anything' acceptable for an Economy7 tariff?

Anyway, a technician is being scheduled (to check if the time drift is >2.5hrs and outside tolerance.. which it won't be, because that's not the problem), but hopefully I can get to the bottom of it with them.

Referencing the paragraph that I've put in bold ...

I think I'm going down a cul-de-sac with this but the region default time pattern regime (TPR) for Essex is 0000-0700 GMT not 0030-0730 GMT. This TPR (0000-0700 GMT) was the off-peak time period for me when with E.ON Next and is now with EDF, MTC 807, I am in North Herts (area 10 Eastern). Over the Essex border in Kent (South East area 19) they do have the TPRs in question ... splits 2230-0030 then 0230-0730 GMT and also 0030-0730 as defaults (confusingly), they are covered by the same DNO as Eastern in Ipswich.

UK Power Networks,
Customer Relations,
Fore Hamlet,
Ipswich,
Suffolk,
IP3 8AA.
Call 0800 029 4285

My head hurts.

Edit: So in summary your mother has an operational auxiliary load control switch (ALCS) of 2230-0030 then 0230-0730 GMT and TPR of 0030-0730 GMT, the billing is according to the TPR.

Both of these time periods (plus 2230-0530) are configurable off-peak TPRs in the South Eastern region. Only one of these should be implemented in a smart meter for ALCS and TPR purposes but it would appear that when the smart meter was installed the TPR was incorrectly set. Given the three time bands in use in the South Eastern region there is clearly the opportunity for mistakes to be made. Although it might be unusual a supplier with a technical team should be aware of this.

The mystery is this that this has occurred in the Eastern region, but maybe the regional time bands are not so hard and fast when the same network operator is in charge for adjacent regions.

Mobtr

Just had a glance through this post, what exactly is the complaint you have gone to the ombudsman with? 

QrizB

Mobtr said:

Just had a glance through this post, what exactly is the complaint you have gone to the ombudsman with? 

Hopefully, it's that the ALCS times don't align with the tariff times and that the OP's mother is paying peak-rate prices for what should be off-peak electricity.