Zero standing charge

CSI_Yorkshire

wrf12345 said:

 getting rid of s/c's at that time and making energy companies have a single kw/hour charge (plus a bit off for DD) would have ...

... penalised anyone who was a high user, whether that was someone with a big house, a large family with a poorly insulated house, or someone who requires medical equipment at home, and made it cheaper for someone who could afford to pay to install solar and batteries - despite each situation only requiring a single connection to the grid.

[Deleted User]

CSI_Yorkshire said:

wrf12345 said:

 getting rid of s/c's at that time and making energy companies have a single kw/hour charge (plus a bit off for DD) would have ...

... penalised anyone who was a high user, whether that was someone with a big house, a large family with a poorly insulated house, or someone who requires medical equipment at home, and made it cheaper for someone who could afford to pay to install solar and batteries - despite each situation only requiring a single connection to the grid.

Correct. @wrf12345 conveniently fails to mention that reducing standing charges for low users would result in higher standing charges for everybody else. 

I am sure that this couple would be very happy to see zero standing charge tariffs:

‘The couple bought a plot with a nondescript bungalow overlooking the River Dee in Neston, Cheshire, for £385,000, knocked it down and built a contemporary 4,500 sq ft home with five bedrooms and two studies. The house has 250mm insulation in the walls, foundations and roof as well as triple-glazed windows and 40 solar panels. There’s mechanical ventilation with a heat recovery system with a micro air source heat pump, which cools the house in summer and warms it in winter, and a 2kW duct heater.’

wrf12345

"reducing standing charges for low users would result in higher standing charges for everybody else. "

Sorry but the fabled average user would pay exactly what they are paying now, lower than average would pay less. The big solution is to get rid of the s/c and let the national grid buy energy in massive bulk and sell direct to the user if they have smart meters fitted, set to prepayment mode and topped up online via debit cards (if you can't do that then you will be able to stay with the rump of retail energy and pay for the pleasure). That would be a saving of roughly twenty percent in unit cost even with a higher rate to include the standing charge, the dinosaur retail energy companies deserve a good kicking.

As to the energy efficient householder, after massive expense, being expected to pay s/c's to prop up a corrupt energy industry, well...

CSI_Yorkshire

So your great solution is to let rich people pay no standing charge, but anyone who struggles with online technology (often the elderly or socially disadvantaged) should "pay for the pleasure"?

Nice.

[Deleted User]

wrf12345 said:

"reducing standing charges for low users would result in higher standing charges for everybody else. "

Sorry but the fabled average user would pay exactly what they are paying now, lower than average would pay less. The big solution is to get rid of the s/c and let the national grid buy energy in massive bulk and sell direct to the user if they have smart meters fitted, set to prepayment mode and topped up online via debit cards (if you can't do that then you will be able to stay with the rump of retail energy and pay for the pleasure). That would be a saving of roughly twenty percent in unit cost even with a higher rate to include the standing charge, the dinosaur retail energy companies deserve a good kicking.

As to the energy efficient householder, after massive expense, being expected to pay s/c's to prop up a corrupt energy industry, well...

How would that work:

‘The National Grid is the system operator of Great Britain's electricity and gas supply. This includes England, Scotland and Wales. It is the company that manages the network and distribution of electricity and gas that powers all our homes and businesses.

National Grid plc's top ten shareholders range from global asset management firms BlackRock and Vanguard to public pension funds, notably those of Norway and the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority. As of 2022, BlackRock held close to 9% of total shares.’

So you want buy out all the existing energy suppliers, and then you want to give an enormous contract to a single private company that has absolutely no experience whatsoever of purchasing energy with a calculated saving of 20%.

We would all be interested to see your Business Plan.

CSI_Yorkshire

[Deleted User] said:

wrf12345 said:

"reducing standing charges for low users would result in higher standing charges for everybody else. "

Sorry but the fabled average user would pay exactly what they are paying now, lower than average would pay less. The big solution is to get rid of the s/c and let the national grid buy energy in massive bulk and sell direct to the user if they have smart meters fitted, set to prepayment mode and topped up online via debit cards (if you can't do that then you will be able to stay with the rump of retail energy and pay for the pleasure). That would be a saving of roughly twenty percent in unit cost even with a higher rate to include the standing charge, the dinosaur retail energy companies deserve a good kicking.

As to the energy efficient householder, after massive expense, being expected to pay s/c's to prop up a corrupt energy industry, well...

How would that work:

‘The National Grid is the system operator of Great Britain's electricity and gas supply. This includes England, Scotland and Wales. It is the company that manages the network and distribution of electricity and gas that powers all our homes and businesses.

National Grid plc's top ten shareholders range from global asset management firms BlackRock and Vanguard to public pension funds, notably those of Norway and the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority. As of 2022, BlackRock held close to 9% of total shares.’

So you want buy out all the existing energy suppliers, and then you want to give an enormous contract to a single private company that has absolutely no experience whatsoever of purchasing energy with a calculated saving of 20%.

We would all be interested to see your Business Plan.

You know as well as I do that wrt doesn't expect anyone to buy out suppliers.  They expect someone to click their fingers and everything to be nationalised again.

[Deleted User]

CSI_Yorkshire said:

[Deleted User] said:

wrf12345 said:

"reducing standing charges for low users would result in higher standing charges for everybody else. "

Sorry but the fabled average user would pay exactly what they are paying now, lower than average would pay less. The big solution is to get rid of the s/c and let the national grid buy energy in massive bulk and sell direct to the user if they have smart meters fitted, set to prepayment mode and topped up online via debit cards (if you can't do that then you will be able to stay with the rump of retail energy and pay for the pleasure). That would be a saving of roughly twenty percent in unit cost even with a higher rate to include the standing charge, the dinosaur retail energy companies deserve a good kicking.

As to the energy efficient householder, after massive expense, being expected to pay s/c's to prop up a corrupt energy industry, well...

How would that work:

‘The National Grid is the system operator of Great Britain's electricity and gas supply. This includes England, Scotland and Wales. It is the company that manages the network and distribution of electricity and gas that powers all our homes and businesses.

National Grid plc's top ten shareholders range from global asset management firms BlackRock and Vanguard to public pension funds, notably those of Norway and the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority. As of 2022, BlackRock held close to 9% of total shares.’

So you want buy out all the existing energy suppliers, and then you want to give an enormous contract to a single private company that has absolutely no experience whatsoever of purchasing energy with a calculated saving of 20%.

We would all be interested to see your Business Plan.

You know as well as I do that wrt doesn't expect anyone to buy out suppliers.  They expect someone to click their fingers and everything to be nationalised again.

It is important, in my view, to call out those who believe that changes can be introduced without consequences. I suspect that @wrf12345 thinks that The National Grid is a nationalised company.

Scot_39

Dolor said:

wrf12345 said:

"reducing standing charges for low users would result in higher standing charges for everybody else. "

Sorry but the fabled average user would pay exactly what they are paying now, lower than average would pay less. The big solution is to get rid of the s/c and let the national grid buy energy in massive bulk and sell direct to the user if they have smart meters fitted, set to prepayment mode and topped up online via debit cards (if you can't do that then you will be able to stay with the rump of retail energy and pay for the pleasure). That would be a saving of roughly twenty percent in unit cost even with a higher rate to include the standing charge, the dinosaur retail energy companies deserve a good kicking.

As to the energy efficient householder, after massive expense, being expected to pay s/c's to prop up a corrupt energy industry, well...

How would that work:

‘The National Grid is the system operator of Great Britain's electricity and gas supply. This includes England, Scotland and Wales. It is the company that manages the network and distribution of electricity and gas that powers all our homes and businesses.

National Grid plc's top ten shareholders range from global asset management firms BlackRock and Vanguard to public pension funds, notably those of Norway and the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority. As of 2022, BlackRock held close to 9% of total shares.’

So you want buy out all the existing energy suppliers, and then you want to give an enormous contract to a single private company that has absolutely no experience whatsoever of purchasing energy with a calculated saving of 20%.

We would all be interested to see your Business Plan.

Not strictly true.

If talking grid transmission operators there are three.

Scotland has 2 of its own electricity grid network transmission operators - for electricity at least -  SSEN in North (despite Southern in title) and SP EN in Central belt / South.

N Grid only cover England and Wales for electric - gas ? - iirc.

And at some point responsibility drops down to a larger number of the regional distribution companies - you will have a name and number for them to report power cuts etc - to get power from grid substations to your meter.

CSI_Yorkshire

Scot_39 said:

Dolor said:

wrf12345 said:

"reducing standing charges for low users would result in higher standing charges for everybody else. "

Sorry but the fabled average user would pay exactly what they are paying now, lower than average would pay less. The big solution is to get rid of the s/c and let the national grid buy energy in massive bulk and sell direct to the user if they have smart meters fitted, set to prepayment mode and topped up online via debit cards (if you can't do that then you will be able to stay with the rump of retail energy and pay for the pleasure). That would be a saving of roughly twenty percent in unit cost even with a higher rate to include the standing charge, the dinosaur retail energy companies deserve a good kicking.

As to the energy efficient householder, after massive expense, being expected to pay s/c's to prop up a corrupt energy industry, well...

How would that work:

‘The National Grid is the system operator of Great Britain's electricity and gas supply. This includes England, Scotland and Wales. It is the company that manages the network and distribution of electricity and gas that powers all our homes and businesses.

National Grid plc's top ten shareholders range from global asset management firms BlackRock and Vanguard to public pension funds, notably those of Norway and the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority. As of 2022, BlackRock held close to 9% of total shares.’

So you want buy out all the existing energy suppliers, and then you want to give an enormous contract to a single private company that has absolutely no experience whatsoever of purchasing energy with a calculated saving of 20%.

We would all be interested to see your Business Plan.

Not strictly true.

If talking grid transmission operators there are three.

Scotland has 2 of its own electricity grid network transmission operators - for electricity at least -  SSEN in North (despite Southern in title) and SP EN in Central belt / South.

N Grid only cover England and Wales for electric - gas ? - iirc.

And at some point responsibility drops down to a larger number of the regional distribution companies - you will have a name and number for them to report power cuts etc - to get power from grid substations to your meter.

What Dolor says is exactly true.

Scotland has two transmission system owners and England/Wales has the third.

The UK has exactly one transmission system operator.  National Grid ESO is the electricity system operator for England, Wales and Scotland.

National Gas Transmission (which is 40% owned by National Grid) is the gas system operator.

You are confused between owner and operator.  Also, whilst you are right that there are Distribution Network Operators (which they sometimes call distribution system operators) at lower voltages across the country, overall responsibility is retained by National Grid ESO - who can give instructions to the DNOs to perform a number of system-related tasks.

[Deleted User]

What Dolor says is exactly true.

I hope so: I ‘cut ‘n’ pasted’ the first paragraph from National Grid’s website.