Advice about decrepit boiler - repair or replace

dryjoy

In terms of symptoms, all I can say is the engineer who came to do the service (non-BG) said it was in dangerous condition, leaking, heat exchanger needed to be replaced etc, and shut it off. 

The boiler was originally fitted by someone else (not our current regular guy or BG). 

Interesting you ask about the flush through. The engineer who fitted it signed to say he did flush the system through, but our current engineer’s opinion is he couldn’t have done because the water tank
was in such a state. We then had him flush the system last year. 

Not sure about a magnetic filter, I assume we don’t have that as I’ve not heard of it. 

Not sure what LegProt is - do you mean legal protection? Not sure about that either. 

ThisIsWeird

dryjoy said:

In terms of symptoms, all I can say is the engineer who came to do the service (non-BG) said it was in dangerous condition, leaking, heat exchanger needed to be replaced etc, and shut it off. 

The boiler was originally fitted by someone else (not our current regular guy or BG). 

Interesting you ask about the flush through. The engineer who fitted it signed to say he did flush the system through, but our current engineer’s opinion is he couldn’t have done because the water tank
was in such a state. We then had him flush the system last year. 

Not sure about a magnetic filter, I assume we don’t have that as I’ve not heard of it. 

Not sure what LegProt is - do you mean legal protection? Not sure about that either. 

The exchanger is 'leaking', then? Does your boiler have a pressure gauge - if so, is pressure dropping?

A magnetic filter is now a required fitting with a new boiler - it goes on the main central heating pipe on its return to the boiler, and is a cylindrical device which is designed to catch any remaining sludge in your pipes and radiators.

Good that you've had your system flushed, especially if it wasn't done originally.

Yes, Legal Protection, just in case you had to try and take action due to the boiler of not being of satisfactory quality. Best if that isn't needed, tho'...

Personally, I would oblige the BG contract to act and replace the exchanger. That's what it's for - some they win, some they lose. That should give you a good 5+ years of fairly reliable boiler use.

dryjoy

FreeBear said:

Section62 said:

dryjoy said:

It’s difficult to decide the best course of action.

If it were me I'd find a local independent gas boiler engineer, preferably one specialising in your make of boiler.  Ask them to quote for a replacement heat exchanger.

Then after recovering from the shock of hearing how cheap it is compared to BG's solution, ask the independent engineer to verify there is a problem with the heat exchanger before replacing it.

I would certainly get a second opinion, but say nothing about the BG engineer's opinion - Last time I had a boiler "condemned", no one was willing to give a second opinion if I let slip on the initial report.

7 years is not that old for a boiler, so I wouldn't call it decrepit based on that alone - Post the make & model, and we will soon tell you if the heat exchanger is obtainable, and what sort of price a new one actually costs.

If you do decide to replace the boiler, get some quotes from independent local suppliers, not BG. And then cancel the Homecare plan. Put the premium that you would have paid in to a savings account, and use that to pay for an annual service & any repairs.

Hi, I’ve checked the make and model now. 

It’s a Biasi Advance Plus 25S ERP

ThisIsWeird

I'll check that out in case it has 'history'.

To be blunt, dryjoy, you are owed a repair. You have fulfilled all your side of this deal - annual services, repair contract, many £100's spent just for this sort of eventuality.
It's a no-brainer - it's time to call in that warranty and insist it is repaired.

ThisIsWeird

Fascinating! If it's yer thang.

These boilers were given a 7-year warranty, I understand, and use a Stainless Steel 'Giannoni' heat exchanger which appears to be a cylindrical coil of pipe which makes up its sides.

There's a few threads about the strange build up of black, crumbly debris - like coffee granules - inside them, and comments that they need regular - often annual - cleaning to remove this if it ain't going to cause a problem. But they shouldn't corrode or leak any more than others.

DJ - what is the actual issue with your boiler? Noise? Tripping through overheating? What?

ThisIsWeird

Two suggestions, DJ - email (or web-'chat') with Biasi and explain your situation: 6-year old Advance Plus 25S ERP, serviced annually, and just been diagnosed with whatever it is the guys said. Ask their 'thoughts'...

Hopefully they'll suggest you have it sorted under your maintenance contract, in which case you can add that to your insistence that BG do so.

And the other suggestion is - get it fixed under your contract regardless!

Undervalued

dryjoy said:

Thanks all. Will post back this evening with make and model. 

A couple of bits of relevant info:

It is definitely out of warranty (it’s 6 years old, warranty was 5). 

It was actually a non-BG engineer who comes to service it each year who initially diagnosed it as needing a new heat exchanger. His view was that it is not worth repairing and would probably be better off with a replacement. 

We then called out BG as we took out a home care plan with them start of this year (as this boiler has been trouble from the start) and they agreed with that diagnosis. The non-BG guy also wants to sell us a new boiler. 

It has been serviced every year. 

Really appreciate the advice. More info later. 

Some makes of boilers (Vaillant for example), for the main heat exchanger it can be cheaper to have a fixed price repair from them for less that an independent engineer would have to pay for the part.

That was certainly true in my case and the local engineer was kind an honest enough to point that out when I was in that situation a few years ago.

For most other repairs the reverse is true but Vaillant seem to "take the rough with the smooth". I don't know if the same would apply with other makes but may be worth looking on their websites.

dryjoy

ThisIsWeird said:

Fascinating! If it's yer thang.

These boilers were given a 7-year warranty, I understand, and use a Stainless Steel 'Giannoni' heat exchanger which appears to be a cylindrical coil of pipe which makes up its sides.

There's a few threads about the strange build up of black, crumbly debris - like coffee granules - inside them, and comments that they need regular - often annual - cleaning to remove this if it ain't going to cause a problem. But they shouldn't corrode or leak any more than others.

DJ - what is the actual issue with your boiler? Noise? Tripping through overheating? What?

Well, last year, the boiler started making a horrendous noise and vibrating, basically sounded and felt like it was about to ‘boil over’. So we shut it off, had our regular engineer out, who repaired it. I think that was done under warranty (just). I can’t remember exactly what he said the issue was, and can’t find the receipt at the moment but must be around somewhere. 

We had some other issue in the winter, again don’t remember exactly what the problem was, except that it just didn’t work (came up with an error code, wouldn’t heat any water). So that was repaired with a call out fee. 

Then about a few months ago, it did the ‘boiling over’ noise thing again. We shut it off, then tried it again later and there were no obvious symptoms that we noticed, so carried on as normal until this year’s annual service, when the (non-BG) engineer told us it is in dangerous condition with ‘split primary heat exchanger and broken flue sensor’. He recommended a new boiler, as opposed to a very expensive repair (warranty was 5 years, it’s now 6 years old). 

We then called BG under our home care plan, and the BG engineer also suggested a replacement would be more economical than a repair, due to increased premiums if we go the repair route. 

FreeBear

dryjoy said:

FreeBear said:

Section62 said:

dryjoy said:

It’s difficult to decide the best course of action.

If it were me I'd find a local independent gas boiler engineer, preferably one specialising in your make of boiler.  Ask them to quote for a replacement heat exchanger.

Then after recovering from the shock of hearing how cheap it is compared to BG's solution, ask the independent engineer to verify there is a problem with the heat exchanger before replacing it.

I would certainly get a second opinion, but say nothing about the BG engineer's opinion - Last time I had a boiler "condemned", no one was willing to give a second opinion if I let slip on the initial report.

7 years is not that old for a boiler, so I wouldn't call it decrepit based on that alone - Post the make & model, and we will soon tell you if the heat exchanger is obtainable, and what sort of price a new one actually costs.

If you do decide to replace the boiler, get some quotes from independent local suppliers, not BG. And then cancel the Homecare plan. Put the premium that you would have paid in to a savings account, and use that to pay for an annual service & any repairs.

Hi, I’ve checked the make and model now. 

It’s a Biasi Advance Plus 25S ERP

A "budget" boiler - Around £600 to buy new (maybe a little less depending on supplier). The main heat exchanger (the bit that actually heats the water) will cost ~£570, the DHW plate heat exchanger, ~£100. Then there is fitting on top....

If it is the main heat exchanger that is at fault, fitting a new boiler is indeed going to be the most cost effective solution. I'd suggest something a little more mainstream such as a Baxi at £600-700. The likes of WB, Vaillant, & Viessmann will be quite a bit more, but you do get longer warranties (up to 12 years) if that is important to you.

On the bright side, whilst the weather is mild, you are not under pressure to get a replacement fitted today (or the old one repaired). So you have time to consider options and make an informed decision.

ThisIsWeird

dryjoy said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Fascinating! If it's yer thang.

These boilers were given a 7-year warranty, I understand, and use a Stainless Steel 'Giannoni' heat exchanger which appears to be a cylindrical coil of pipe which makes up its sides.

There's a few threads about the strange build up of black, crumbly debris - like coffee granules - inside them, and comments that they need regular - often annual - cleaning to remove this if it ain't going to cause a problem. But they shouldn't corrode or leak any more than others.

DJ - what is the actual issue with your boiler? Noise? Tripping through overheating? What?

Well, last year, the boiler started making a horrendous noise and vibrating, basically sounded and felt like it was about to ‘boil over’. So we shut it off, had our regular engineer out, who repaired it. I think that was done under warranty (just). I can’t remember exactly what he said the issue was, and can’t find the receipt at the moment but must be around somewhere. 

We had some other issue in the winter, again don’t remember exactly what the problem was, except that it just didn’t work (came up with an error code, wouldn’t heat any water). So that was repaired with a call out fee. 

Then about a few months ago, it did the ‘boiling over’ noise thing again. We shut it off, then tried it again later and there were no obvious symptoms that we noticed, so carried on as normal until this year’s annual service, when the (non-BG) engineer told us it is in dangerous condition with ‘split primary heat exchanger and broken flue sensor’. He recommended a new boiler, as opposed to a very expensive repair (warranty was 5 years, it’s now 6 years old). 

We then called BG under our home care plan, and the BG engineer also suggested a replacement would be more economical than a repair, due to increased premiums if we go the repair route. 

Ah, so it's cracked and leaking? Wow. 
Confirm - your current policy with BG does cover repairs? And the policy is on an annual renewal? Is there an 'excess' charge for repairs?
Depending on your answers - if it makes financial sense - get it repaired, and if they increase the premium on renewal, cancel it.
So please answer these Qs.

Meanwhile, also have that chat with Biasi - see what they say.