Income required to live this sort of life in london

Emmia

Slinky said:

rach_k said:

RedFraggle said:

I'd also say £80k plus. Expect to pay £6+ a pint and £8+ a large glass of wine unless you want to drink in spoons. Groceries are also 10 to 15% more expensive ime and I'm referring to Tesco superstore prices not high end. 

I would agree with £80K plus, but I don't think groceries are any more expensive in the big supermarkets unless you are shopping at their smaller local/express type shops.  I'm in zone 4 and have all of the big shops within an easy drive and most of them are only a bus ride away.  

OP has said nothing about factoring a car into the equation, and somehow I get them impression they are more likely to be shopping in the smaller convenience stores than lugging bags of groceries on the bus. Not that they will need to be buying many groceries given the number of times they will be eating out.

As someone who lives, without a car in central London, groceries tend to be delivered using one of the supermarket apps or ocado - I don't really ever go in to a supermarket.

RedFraggle

rach_k said:

RedFraggle said:

I'd also say £80k plus. Expect to pay £6+ a pint and £8+ a large glass of wine unless you want to drink in spoons. Groceries are also 10 to 15% more expensive ime and I'm referring to Tesco superstore prices not high end. 

I would agree with £80K plus, but I don't think groceries are any more expensive in the big supermarkets unless you are shopping at their smaller local/express type shops.  I'm in zone 4 and have all of the big shops within an easy drive and most of them are only a bus ride away.  

That was my experience moving from Yorkshire to Zone 1 in 2020. Shopping at Tesco Superstore Earls Court/A4 and Sainsbury's at Kensal Rise. 

steampowered

dimbo61 said:

Rental prices have gone through the roof and please don't blame greedy landlords.
Huge demand from Students, Immigration, lack of building new homes and for me the number of million pound EMPTY houses owned by overseas owners means a huge shortage of affordable housing.

Landlords certainly make a big contribution to it. The supply of housing is fixed (at least in the short to medium term), so additional demand only pushes prices up.

Students have always been in London. Absent overseas owners who own a few mansions and luxury flats do not have much of an impact on the rest of the market. 

steampowered

Ybe said:

Appreciate this is a how long is a piece of string question but roughly, what income does one need to live the below example lifestyle in london (living in the outer zones 4-6), living on their own with no dependents. 

- Standard grocery shopping (nothing fancy) 
- Going out 2-3 times a week (standard pubs, restaurants). 

- Going out on the weekend (standard pubs, restaurants, occasional events/festivals/gigs - mainly in summer). 
- Mortgage of £1300 p/m with all maintenance costs for 1 bed flat. Service charge £2400 a year. 

- 2-3 holidays a year (mostly domestic or short haul short trips 1 week or less duration, occasional long haul every 2-3 years 2 weeks duration)

- Saving for pension and rainy days. 
- Travel into central london for commute. 

Let's put some figures on it:
- Mortgage: £1,300 pm
- Groceries: £300 pm 
- Pubs and restaurants 5x per month spending £40 each time: £200 pm
- Weekend activities 3x per month spending £100 each time: £300pm
- 2 holidays per year costing £2000 each: £333 per month
- Commuting (average cost according to google): £118 pm
- Rain day saving: £200 per month
- Total = £,2751 pm

To pay for that you need a gross salary of £48,000. That salary gives you £2,751.75 after tax and pension, assuming a 5% employee contribution to your pension. 

Of course there are other costs such as clothing, dentistry, hair cuts etc. which are not included in the above so you'd probably want a salary more like £60-70k to cover those costs. 

And in order to pay for a mortgage you need a big deposit. The average house deposit in London for first time buyers is about £100k. I have absolutely no idea how people are expected to save for that sort of deposit given how expensive renting is in London. Unless they get a big gift from their parents or a big inheritance.

Martico

steampowered said:

Ybe said:

Appreciate this is a how long is a piece of string question but roughly, what income does one need to live the below example lifestyle in london (living in the outer zones 4-6), living on their own with no dependents. 

- Standard grocery shopping (nothing fancy) 
- Going out 2-3 times a week (standard pubs, restaurants). 

- Going out on the weekend (standard pubs, restaurants, occasional events/festivals/gigs - mainly in summer). 
- Mortgage of £1300 p/m with all maintenance costs for 1 bed flat. Service charge £2400 a year. 

- 2-3 holidays a year (mostly domestic or short haul short trips 1 week or less duration, occasional long haul every 2-3 years 2 weeks duration)

- Saving for pension and rainy days. 
- Travel into central london for commute. 

Let's put some figures on it:
- Mortgage: £1,300 pm
- Groceries: £300 pm 
- Pubs and restaurants 5x per month spending £40 each time: £200 pm
- Weekend activities 3x per month spending £100 each time: £300pm
- 2 holidays per year costing £2000 each: £333 per month
- Commuting (average cost according to google): £118 pm
- Rain day saving: £200 per month
- Total = £,2751 pm

To pay for that you need a gross salary of £48,000. That salary gives you £2,751.75 after tax and pension, assuming a 5% employee contribution to your pension. 

Of course there are other costs such as clothing, dentistry, hair cuts etc. which are not included in the above so you'd probably want a salary more like £60-70k to cover those costs. 

And in order to pay for a mortgage you need a big deposit. The average house deposit in London for first time buyers is about £100k. I have absolutely no idea how people are expected to save for that sort of deposit given how expensive renting is in London. Unless they get a big gift from their parents or a big inheritance.

Not forgetting the large chunk taken up by Council Tax and utilities

DullGreyGuy

Ybe said:

Appreciate this is a how long is a piece of string question but roughly, what income does one need to live the below example lifestyle in london (living in the outer zones 4-6), living on their own with no dependents. 

- Standard grocery shopping (nothing fancy) 
- Going out 2-3 times a week (standard pubs, restaurants). 

- Going out on the weekend (standard pubs, restaurants, occasional events/festivals/gigs - mainly in summer). 
- Mortgage of £1300 p/m with all maintenance costs for 1 bed flat. Service charge £2400 a year. 

- 2-3 holidays a year (mostly domestic or short haul short trips 1 week or less duration, occasional long haul every 2-3 years 2 weeks duration)

- Saving for pension and rainy days. 
- Travel into central london for commute. 

So going out more than 2-3 times a week given you add weekend on top of 2-3 times?

"Going out" could be £10 a day if you are going to Spoons and having a meal + drink deal or it could be £60 a day if its going to the local independent pub and having 5 pints or a few glasses of wine and a meal (2 courses). 

Holiday costs are going to be irrelevant of location really.

You dont mention of any other debts being serviced

Emmia

The season ticket cost is way off, a zone 1-4 travel card is £224.70 a month, and a zone 1-6 is £285 a month.

Money spent on lunches and coffee is also not factored in - I work in central London, and I budget up to £10 a day for that, usually spending around £7.

lookstraightahead

Emmia said:

The season ticket cost is way off, a zone 1-4 travel card is £224.70 a month, and a zone 1-6 is £285 a month.

Money spent on lunches and coffee is also not factored in - I work in central London, and I budget up to £10 a day for that, usually spending around £7.

That's not something you need though, you can take a flask and your lunch, when I worked in central London my big mistake was spending on coffees and food, usually while waiting for the trains 

Emmia

lookstraightahead said:

Emmia said:

The season ticket cost is way off, a zone 1-4 travel card is £224.70 a month, and a zone 1-6 is £285 a month.

Money spent on lunches and coffee is also not factored in - I work in central London, and I budget up to £10 a day for that, usually spending around £7.

That's not something you need though, you can take a flask and your lunch, when I worked in central London my big mistake was spending on coffees and food, usually while waiting for the trains 

I think, honestly this is about the choices made and the lifestyle desired - you can have £10 meal deals with drinks at a 'spoons, or you can go to another pub (a Fullers for example) and struggle to get away with change from £20. Gyms, can be £200 a month  for the places that offer classes only, or £35 for the Local Authority one - that too is not factored.

The OP wants to know how much they'd need to earn to enjoy a reasonable lifestyle working in central London. For me buying lunch + one coffee per day from the independent cafe is part of that. 

lookstraightahead

Emmia said:

lookstraightahead said:

Emmia said:

The season ticket cost is way off, a zone 1-4 travel card is £224.70 a month, and a zone 1-6 is £285 a month.

Money spent on lunches and coffee is also not factored in - I work in central London, and I budget up to £10 a day for that, usually spending around £7.

That's not something you need though, you can take a flask and your lunch, when I worked in central London my big mistake was spending on coffees and food, usually while waiting for the trains 

I think, honestly this is about the choices made and the lifestyle desired - you can have £10 meal deals with drinks at a 'spoons, or you can go to another pub (a Fullers for example) and struggle to get away with change from £20. Gyms, can be £200 a month  for the places that offer classes only, or £35 for the Local Authority one - that too is not factored.

The OP wants to know how much they'd need to earn to enjoy a reasonable lifestyle working in central London. For me buying lunch + one coffee per day from the independent cafe is part of that. 

Fair enough, I'm really just saying that buying coffee and lunch isn't something you have to do in London any more than anywhere else in the country. 

It equates to nearly £3000 after tax earnings a year which means roughly £4500 gross income. When my daughter realised this was the difference between living in in zone 2, or having to commute in from zone 5, it changed her mind (she rents she's in her twenties). This totally changed her lifestyle, she saved money on her commute and also lots of time.