1930's maisonette, lessons learned but advice needed for loft!

the82message

Hi all

Some quick facts

• 1930's maisonette bought last year, my first home outside of a new build shared property
• I have first floor and loft, neighbour has ground floor
• Loft room already pre existed, but badly done back in 90's, so no building regs
• Accessible by staircase
• Contractors I used to do renovation (via a close ones rec) said they could refresh the loft room, started to rip things out and the guy they used as a day player unwittingly took out a purlin so roof started to sag slightly (but not too bad), stopped work in loft immediately and they finished other pre agreed work.
• Was too stressed and distracted by newborn to do anything else, or seek recourse
• Any remainder budget I had left over last year absorbed by life, having a new child etc.
• Realised the roof itself is unlined and we had a very cold winter just gone, a few gaps in tiles but not loads
• Obv need to insulate but without roof being lined, and the gaps in tiles, not sure
• I have obtained planning consent 'just in case' I can afford works in near future

SO, thinking about this upcoming winter, and also current peace of mind / future re-saleability of the house, I'm trying to figure out what to do and currently cant afford full loft conversion?







Thank you all in advance!

bryanb

Insulate!!

the82message

Thanks, although I'm concerned the roof isn't lined, and a few gaps in the tiles?

Robin9

Get full consent for the conversion but only do the insulation aspects.   Do the rest in stages as money permits

Section62

the82message said:

SO, thinking about this upcoming winter, and also current peace of mind / future re-saleability of the house, I'm trying to figure out what to do and currently cant afford full loft conversion?

Get some advice from a structural engineer before doing anything else.

As well as the missing purlin, whoever installed the velux windows has omitted the necessary 'doubling up' of members around the openings to safely transfer the loadings from the cut rafters into the remaining structure.

Whatever you do decide to do, make sure you get building regs and also check the situation with planning consent. Maisonettes don't have permitted development rights, so conversion of the loft into a third storey almost certainly needed planning consent.

I think you are probably at the point where getting the roof stripped, getting the structure sorted properly, then adding membrane and replacing the battens would make sense.  But you'll obviously need to prioritise this work according to your budget.  If the roof is stripped that would be the ideal time to add additional structure to the floor of the loft as that also looks to be inadequate.

How is the loft accessed? To get building regs as a living space it will need to have proper stairs with landings and appropriate measures to resist the spread of smoke and fire.  If you can't practically achieve this then you may be better off converting the loft back into a loft.

I doubt it would make economic sense to insulate the loft as a short-term measure before the structural/roof work is done, as potentially much of the insulation would need to be removed to do the structural work.  For the upcoming winter just seal the access to the loft as best you can to reduce the amount of heat lost through gaps etc.

the82message

Section62 said:

the82message said:

SO, thinking about this upcoming winter, and also current peace of mind / future re-saleability of the house, I'm trying to figure out what to do and currently cant afford full loft conversion?

Get some advice from a structural engineer before doing anything else.

As well as the missing purlin, whoever installed the velux windows has omitted the necessary 'doubling up' of members around the openings to safely transfer the loadings from the cut rafters into the remaining structure.

Whatever you do decide to do, make sure you get building regs and also check the situation with planning consent. Maisonettes don't have permitted development rights, so conversion of the loft into a third storey almost certainly needed planning consent.

I think you are probably at the point where getting the roof stripped, getting the structure sorted properly, then adding membrane and replacing the battens would make sense.  But you'll obviously need to prioritise this work according to your budget.  If the roof is stripped that would be the ideal time to add additional structure to the floor of the loft as that also looks to be inadequate.

How is the loft accessed? To get building regs as a living space it will need to have proper stairs with landings and appropriate measures to resist the spread of smoke and fire.  If you can't practically achieve this then you may be better off converting the loft back into a loft.

I doubt it would make economic sense to insulate the loft as a short-term measure before the structural/roof work is done, as potentially much of the insulation would need to be removed to do the structural work.  For the upcoming winter just seal the access to the loft as best you can to reduce the amount of heat lost through gaps etc.

Thank you for this, accessible by staircase. I do now have planning permission for a loft conversion which is great. I held off from structural engineer chat, as I appreciate the next step is party wall agreement etc...

Section62

the82message said:

Section62 said:

...I held off from structural engineer chat, as I appreciate the next step is party wall agreement etc...

Advice from a SE should come before the PWA... you need to know what work you have to do before you can agree anything with the neighbour.

Also, because of the issue of the removed purlin and sagging roof, you need this looked at as a matter of some urgency - and preferably before the winter when issues such as wind and snow loading may make things worse than they are already.

mi-key

Re the future saleability - only a full loft conversion would add any value, a 'loft room' that can't be used as a proper bedroom doesn't really add any value, even though they can be useful as a home office or playroom etc...

There is no need to strip the roof and rebuild it ! If the existing structure is fine and watertight then it would just be a waste of money.

Section62

mi-key said:

There is no need to strip the roof and rebuild it ! If the existing structure is fine and watertight then it would just be a waste of money.

You are right there is no absolute need to strip the roof. (which for clarity means taking off the tiles and battens, not removing the whole structure)

But given the age and condition and the work needing to be done on the structure, stripping the roof as part of this project would give the opportunity to put in a membrane and replace the battens which - even if the wood is in good condition - are probably held on by nails which have badly corroded.

Assuming the OP goes ahead and gets the structural repair work done, then by removing the tiles and unloading the roof the structural work will be easier to do.  Depending how the builder goes about the work the additional cost of stripping the roof may be partially offset by savings in the structural work being less difficult to do.

So no, not something which absolutely needs to be done, but not necessarily a waste of money - it depends on other factors including the condition of the battens and tiles which nobody yet knows.

the82message

Section62 said:

mi-key said:

There is no need to strip the roof and rebuild it ! If the existing structure is fine and watertight then it would just be a waste of money.

You are right there is no absolute need to strip the roof. (which for clarity means taking off the tiles and battens, not removing the whole structure)

But given the age and condition and the work needing to be done on the structure, stripping the roof as part of this project would give the opportunity to put in a membrane and replace the battens which - even if the wood is in good condition - are probably held on by nails which have badly corroded.

Assuming the OP goes ahead and gets the structural repair work done, then by removing the tiles and unloading the roof the structural work will be easier to do.  Depending how the builder goes about the work the additional cost of stripping the roof may be partially offset by savings in the structural work being less difficult to do.

So no, not something which absolutely needs to be done, but not necessarily a waste of money - it depends on other factors including the condition of the battens and tiles which nobody yet knows.

Thanks again, I really appreciate this insight!

mi-key

Section62 said:

mi-key said:

There is no need to strip the roof and rebuild it ! If the existing structure is fine and watertight then it would just be a waste of money.

You are right there is no absolute need to strip the roof. (which for clarity means taking off the tiles and battens, not removing the whole structure)

But given the age and condition and the work needing to be done on the structure, stripping the roof as part of this project would give the opportunity to put in a membrane and replace the battens which - even if the wood is in good condition - are probably held on by nails which have badly corroded.

Assuming the OP goes ahead and gets the structural repair work done, then by removing the tiles and unloading the roof the structural work will be easier to do.  Depending how the builder goes about the work the additional cost of stripping the roof may be partially offset by savings in the structural work being less difficult to do.

So no, not something which absolutely needs to be done, but not necessarily a waste of money - it depends on other factors including the condition of the battens and tiles which nobody yet knows.

The work on the structure can easily be done from the inside a lot cheaper. A strip and re tile can easily cost £10,000 so unless it really needs doing due to leaking or major structural problems, then its pointless for the OP to spend that money if replacing some internal purloins and getting the velux windows supported more can be done. Not to mention the upheaval of having a roof replaced