Update Judgement - Both struck out (29th Feb) - Victoria Quays - Sheffield, S2 5SY

Anto_28

Hi All,

I’d like to get your input on my parking situation. I’m not yet at Court stage so please treat this thread as very low priority and I’ll update this header if this escalates to a LBC.

I received a Posted only NTK from VCS for parking my car without a valid ticket/permit on display. My parking permit (paid for at £100 a month) however was on display and clearly visible, showing all details. The problem herein lies that the permit was on the armrest where I’d placed it while getting my dog out of the car. I then forgot to move it to the dashboard where I usually placed the permit and had done for the past 5 years.

I was at work and a workmate spotted a ticket officer photographing my car so I ran out to speak to the issuing officer. I pointed out the permit to him and he said to me he mistakenly hadn’t spotted the permit and apologised that because he’d already sent the information into VCS he himself could not cancel the ticket. He then took additional photos showing the permit in place (albeit on the armrest). He said to appeal the ticket and in the appeal ask for the additional photos be sought from Mr Scott.

I appealed to VCS and they rejected my appeal stating "The signs make it clear that a valid permit must be clearly displayed in the vehicle parked; on this occasion the above detailed vehicle was observed parked whilst not correctly displaying a valid permit therefore you became liable for the Charge advertised." They also noted “furthermore, as this permit is an 'open' permit, it is not specific to yourself or your vehicle in respect of the period your vehicle was parked.”. All permits issued at this location are open.

Having read the sign, it stats “Permit holder must display a valid permit inside the front windscreen at all times”, yet to me thats ambiguous? Does that mean infused into the glass itself? or affixed to the glass, or just visible when looking into the car from the front windscreen which my permit clearly was.

An interesting thing to note on this one, is that I was parked on a Private Road, clearly marked as a private road at the entrance. However the Permit Location and the PCN both say “Victoria Quays Car Park”.

Sadly I only found the newbies thread when researching the chance of winning via the IAS (which I understand to be as likely as finding water on mars), therefore I already used terms like “I met with the ticketing officer” which will identify me to them as the driver.

I have absolutely no intention of paying the charge, or responding to the debt collection letters. They really don’t scare me. I just wonder if I have any chance in the courts (if it got that far) of this being won.

Big thanks for everything you guys do to help drivers defeat these scumbag companies.

Umkomaas

I have absolutely no intention of paying the charge, or responding to the debt collection letters. They really don’t scare me. I just wonder if I have any chance in the courts (if it got that far) of this being won.

Good.  VCS will likely issue a LBC (possibly via Elms Legal) at some stage and huff and puff maybe with a court claim for you to defend. I'd say, with a robust defence, they're unlikely to take it all the way to a court hearing. But this is an unpredictable business and we can never say never. 

But there are big things afoot in the next few weeks (already slightly overdue) with the Govt pushing out the new National, mandatory Code of Practice resulting from the Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019.  You have the opportunity to add your comments to the final stage immediately the final consultation segment is released. We have our very own top forum contributor in the shape of @Coupon-mad sitting on the Govt's Steering Group responsible for rolling all this out, and she is having a major influence on its development and final rollout. 

In the following thread (go to her post dated 3 July 2022, then read on), Coupon-mad explains what is happening since the parking firms jammed the works in getting the new Code of Practice implemented, by challenging the Govt (and the will of Parliament) with at least two Judicial Reviews which have set the whole process back by more than 12 months, allowing parking firms free rein to continue pillaging British motorists  In fact, in those 12 months some 11 million tickets (over 30,000 per day - including yours!) have been issued by the private parking sector.  As soon as the consultation is available for comment, it will be 'broadcast' on this thread as well as new threads across this forum. Please bookmark the thread and have your say about the unfairness of having to pay a private firm large sums of money as their penalty on you for not showing your legitimate permit to their self-prescribed satisfaction. Please help us to help you and millions of other motorists. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6333989/mse-parking-ticket-appeals-guide-feedback/p1

Anto_28

Umkomaas said:

I have absolutely no intention of paying the charge, or responding to the debt collection letters. They really don’t scare me. I just wonder if I have any chance in the courts (if it got that far) of this being won.

Good.  VCS will likely issue a LBC (possibly via Elms Legal) at some stage and huff and puff maybe with a court claim for you to defend. I'd say, with a robust defence, they're unlikely to take it all the way to a court hearing. But this is an unpredictable business and we can never say never. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6333989/mse-parking-ticket-appeals-guide-feedback/p1

Bookmarked and notifications on! I'll happily add my comments to stop these scumbags.

I fully expect an LBC. Hopefully the template defence, along with my side of the story and the fact I have a valid permit will see them back down.

Out of interest, should I SAR them now, or await the LBC coming. I just don't fully remember what I wrote in my appeal. Guessing if I wait, there may be more correspondence received when the debt collectors go back to VCS saying this dude completely ignoring us.

Umkomaas

Out of interest, should I SAR them now, or await the LBC coming. I just don't fully remember what I wrote in my appeal. Guessing if I wait, there may be more correspondence received when the debt collectors go back to VCS saying this dude completely ignoring us.

You can SAR at any time, but I'd leave it until later as you never know what you might 'miss' in the coming weeks and months. PPCs have a massively disproportionate amount of mailed correspondence that never gets to motorists. They, of course, always protest their 'innocence'!

Coupon-mad

"parking permit (paid for at £100 a month"

You'll win this hands down in court.  Clearly there is zero 'legitimate interest' (essentially the main Beavis test) in pursuing a driver who the ticketer 'Mr Scott' - possible made up name! - KNEW when he stood there, was permitted to park.  He or VCS' back office could have voided the PCN before they even went to the DVLA for data.  Should have done.

In fact this is a clear abuse of your data - an unlawful breach by VCS, under GDPR, the DPA 2018 and under the DVLA KADOE rules because there was no 'reasonable cause' to get your data at all.

You could say that and threaten a £300 counterclaim for data abuse (damages) if it is not cancelled.

Who (precisely - VCS or your employer?) do you pay each month for that permit to park, and can you show us a photo of the front & back of it, and the sign?

Anto_28

Coupon-mad said:

"parking permit (paid for at £100 a month"

You'll win this hands down in court.  Clearly there is zero 'legitimate interest' (essentially the main Beavis test) in pursuing a driver who the ticketer 'Mr Scott' - possible made up name! - KNEW when he stood there, was permitted to park.  He or VCS' back office could have voided the PCN before they even went to the DVLA for data!

Who (precisely - VCS or your employer?) do you pay each month for that permit to park, and can you show is a photo of the front & back of it, and the sign?

My employer pays for 10 passes monthly (i'll have to check who to), and the passes are handed out to senior members of staff, but they are "open" permits. I could in theory say give my pass to you to use if I'm not using it one day for example.

I have attached the front of the pass (back is blank) along with the parking sign.

Coupon-mad

Looks like VCS are already paid £100 a month per permit. Why did your company agree to that rate? That's wasted money to pay a notorious ex-wheelclamper - the landowner should be pressed to kick them out.

Basically you have already paid for your right to park that month.

Also did they observe the car for over 30 minutes to discount that you were loading or unloading (that sign allows that, no permit needed).

Anyway threaten VCS with a counterclaim using my words above.

And:

PLEASE come back here in August to help yourself, as well as all UK drivers/keepers and the DLUHC with their evidence needed to support the draft Impact Assessment.

Anto_28

Coupon-mad said:

Looks like VCS are already paid £100 a month per permit. Why did your company agree to that rate? That's extortionate money to pay to a notorious thug ex-wheelclamper - the landowner should be pressed to kick them out.

Not sure, space is at a premium on Victoria Quays so i'm assuming the Landowner maybe set It. I'll speak to my boss to see if he is paying VCS or Eddisons (previously Fernie Greaves) who are the landowner.

Basically you have already paid for your right to park that month.  Also did they onserve the car for over 30 minutes to discount that you were loading or unloading (that sign allows that, no permit needed).

As I was inside the office at the time I can't for sure say if the officer stayed for 10 minutes or 60 minutes. Would the onus be on them to prove they did?

Coupon-mad

There is no 'officer' - this is horrific VCS!

They won't have waited 30 mins.  

KeithP

Anto_28 said:

Having read the sign, it stats “Permit holder must display a valid permit inside the front windscreen at all times”, yet to me thats ambiguous? Does that mean infused into the glass itself? or affixed to the glass, or just visible when looking into the car from the front windscreen which my permit clearly was.

Section 69 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 succinctly covers that...

69 Contract terms that may have different meanings

(1) If a term in a consumer contract, or a consumer notice, could have different meanings, the meaning that is most favourable to the consumer is to prevail.

And if that's a little bit too difficult for VCS to understand, the accompanying Explanatory Note err... explains...

Section 69: Contract terms that may have different meanings

331. Contract terms can be ambiguous and capable of being interpreted in different ways, especially if they are not in writing or in an accessible format. In these cases, this section ensures that the interpretation that is most beneficial to the consumer, rather than the trader, is the interpretation that is used.

Anto_28

I have written to my local MP - Clive Betts (who just happens to be chair of the LUHC and is also the MP for the area that VCS operate from) to see if he can offer any help.

I also managed to find contact details for the Landowner at Victoria Quays. I appealed to them to speak to VCS to have the PCN cancelled and this was their response. Feels very templated

"We hope you manage to get the matter resolved" - ......... This feels pretty hollow to me. Common sense should prevail here and they should contact VCS to have the PCN cancelled.





I also re-checked their evidence. If I slightly change the levels of the original evidence photo. The pass is clearly "inside the front windscreen"