HSBC terrible behaviour over Fraud on my daughter accounts

nyermen

Taking things at face value for a moment, the app won't have been "hacked", or it would be wide spread and in the news.  To hack such things would be huge, and any fraudster(s) with the knowledge would be targetting high value individuals.

I think more likely we're talking android and a "compromised apk" was installed or something like that.  Then that app (with a keylogger or root permissions) has free rein.

Zanderman

nyermen said:

Taking things at face value for a moment, the app won't have been "hacked", or it would be wide spread and in the news.  To hack such things would be huge, and any fraudster(s) with the knowledge would be targetting high value individuals.

I think more likely we're talking android and a "compromised apk" was installed or something like that.  Then that app (with a keylogger or root permissions) has free rein.

Or just details compromised, or phone used by third party. Simplest explanations are usually the most likely!

OP implies not just HSBC but Nationwide and Monzo apps were also affected.  The simplest explanation for all that is someone getting physical access to the phone, with no need for any 'hack' at all.

Only OP can provide more info, and as OP hasn't returned since posting - and will be maybe put off by the posts pointing out the story doesn't add up if the OP's previous posts are from the same person - any further explanation may never be forthcoming. 

katria

My Daughter  is 24  I am 58

From what I understand  about what happened to her  Apple   I Phone 13  is this

She has HSBC , Nationwide, Monzo  Apps on her  Phone ,, among many other Apps for her work, and gaming and social media , email, maps , music etc etc

Somehow some rogue  software got onto her phone ,,and managed to infect her banking Apps  ,  Monzo think it could have been their app  that was compromised 1st  ?????  they were very helpfull, as were Nationwide ,, a total of £258 was lost from her Monzo by fraudulent purchases and another £654.44  on Natiowide    but HSBC account was much worse  Her Current Account and Credit card were maxxed out to a total of £ 5596,42 p  and her deposit account was also emptied of £1800.  HSBC blamed her for defrauding them denied that HSBC  security had been breached , closed her account and  did not co-operate with Ombudsman at all ...

Monzo  were very helpful , Nationwide also very helpful , it seems the frauds were perpertrated from a source in Denmark  and most of the money has been recrecovered  by Monzo and Nationwide  and almost some has now made itself back to HSBC as well and they did refund about £3008 too my daughter  when Ombudsman investigated  ,, Only HSBC are being awkward and not repaying   about £4000 and have been very unhelpful  and difficult with the Ombudsman ,, HSBC still deny  that the account was compromised and that only so malfeasance by my daughter   could  have made it possible.

Wheras  Monzo and nationwide both knew exactly what happened  , they wont go into security or technical details   but somehow malicious software app got into thI Phone and cause the problem., The police  and fraud teams are aware as well  that there is a possible security flaw  ..

Thats all I know ,, Its HSBC's attitude that stinks

pridehappy

I’ve never knew anyone who has been a full victim of fraud, other than a few unknown transactions on a Halifax Credit Card years ago that got waived quickly. However, I could imagine the immense pressure and stress that this would place you under.

When you consider HSBC’s reputation and service scores, I’m not surprised they behaved in this way. Never had any experiences with Monzo, although I do believe Nationwide have been much better with myself too for even general banking.

I’d never trust HSBC in my life for general banking - and I’m surprised others do too. You’re supporting unethical investments and getting not much worthwhile from it. Good decision to move away!

dil1976

katria said:

HSBC closed my Daughters account recently when fraudsters hacked her accounts but Nationwide and MONZO did not and refunded her all her money as they detected what actually happened which was that an HSBC APP had been compromised  and from that hack it was able to get into her Nationwide and Monzo  APPS .

Even now HSBC refuse to accept it was their App system that was hacked even the Ombudsman has praised Nationwide and Monzo for sorting it all out  and proving that the hack was caused by he HSBC APP , but HSBC have refused to refund her money and are actually demanding she repay money taken from her maxxed out credit card which she had not used !!!!! .

They  closed her account and ruined her credit score ,and will not co-operate with the Ombudsman , SO I TOOK MY VERY SUBSTANTIAL INVESTMENTS AND BUSINESS BANKING AWAY FROM THEM IN PROTEST after 45 years they are very upset losing a valuable customer , to add to our insult  they even said it was none of my business what happened to my daughter ????!!!! and I should not get involved .

The other day when I was closing my HSBC account the woman on the computer where all my balances and details were displayed refused to let me look at my own accounts with  including a business account , savings , ISA , etc  all in all a very large sum of money into the hundreds of Thousands   as she said it was confidential and i was not allowed to check my own details .. total drone jobsworth !!!! 

Nationwide , and Santander are now benefiting

 

katria said:

My Daughter  is 24  I am 58

From what I understand  about what happened to her  Apple   I Phone 13  is this

She has HSBC , Nationwide, Monzo  Apps on her  Phone ,, among many other Apps for her work, and gaming and social media , email, maps , music etc etc

Somehow some rogue  software got onto her phone ,,and managed to infect her banking Apps  ,  Monzo think it could have been their app  that was compromised 1st  ?????  they were very helpfull, as were Nationwide ,, a total of £258 was lost from her Monzo by fraudulent purchases and another £654.44  on Natiowide    but HSBC account was much worse  Her Current Account and Credit card were maxxed out to a total of £ 5596,42 p  and her deposit account was also emptied of £1800.  HSBC blamed her for defrauding them denied that HSBC  security had been breached , closed her account and  did not co-operate with Ombudsman at all ...

Monzo  were very helpful , Nationwide also very helpful , it seems the frauds were perpertrated from a source in Denmark  and most of the money has been recrecovered  by Monzo and Nationwide  and almost some has now made itself back to HSBC as well and they did refund about £3008 too my daughter  when Ombudsman investigated  ,, Only HSBC are being awkward and not repaying   about £4000 and have been very unhelpful  and difficult with the Ombudsman ,, HSBC still deny  that the account was compromised and that only so malfeasance by my daughter   could  have made it possible.

Wheras  Monzo and nationwide both knew exactly what happened  , they wont go into security or technical details   but somehow malicious software app got into thI Phone and cause the problem., The police  and fraud teams are aware as well  that there is a possible security flaw  ..

Thats all I know ,, Its HSBC's attitude that stinks

So it wasn't a bug that was originally sourced within the HSBC app?

Your daughter is responsible for what is installed on her phone. So not sure why you are directing your anger at them as much, they seem to be understanding it the situation but may be trying to recover the money rather than giving it back before it is recovered

kaMelo

katria said:

My Daughter  is 24  I am 58

From what I understand  about what happened to her  Apple   I Phone 13  is this

She has HSBC , Nationwide, Monzo  Apps on her  Phone ,, among many other Apps for her work, and gaming and social media , email, maps , music etc etc

Somehow some rogue  software got onto her phone ,,and managed to infect her banking Apps  ,  Monzo think it could have been their app  that was compromised 1st  ?????  they were very helpfull, as were Nationwide ,, a total of £258 was lost from her Monzo by fraudulent purchases and another £654.44  on Natiowide    but HSBC account was much worse  Her Current Account and Credit card were maxxed out to a total of £ 5596,42 p  and her deposit account was also emptied of £1800.  HSBC blamed her for defrauding them denied that HSBC  security had been breached , closed her account and  did not co-operate with Ombudsman at all ...

Monzo  were very helpful , Nationwide also very helpful , it seems the frauds were perpertrated from a source in Denmark  and most of the money has been recrecovered  by Monzo and Nationwide  and almost some has now made itself back to HSBC as well and they did refund about £3008 too my daughter  when Ombudsman investigated  ,, Only HSBC are being awkward and not repaying   about £4000 and have been very unhelpful  and difficult with the Ombudsman ,, HSBC still deny  that the account was compromised and that only so malfeasance by my daughter   could  have made it possible.

Wheras  Monzo and nationwide both knew exactly what happened  , they wont go into security or technical details   but somehow malicious software app got into thI Phone and cause the problem., The police  and fraud teams are aware as well  that there is a possible security flaw  ..

Thats all I know ,, Its HSBC's attitude that stinks

Thank you for the update, as to how some rogue software was installed upon your daughter's phone and how this software was used to access the other banking apps is quite a crucial point regarding how the bank decide what to do in this case.
Random software doesn't just 'somehow get onto her phone'. Was she coached into downloading some remote access software with  "your money is at risk and you need to move it to a safe account" and then told to download some software so they could help her do so? 
I've never heard of a bank app becoming 'infected'. I suppose it's possible but the thought that some software could infect three different banking apps like you suggest just by being on the phone is rather worrying if true.

As you're unclear on all the details of what happened it would be helpful if you could share the ombudsman DRN number so as we could see why they decided what they did.

oldernonethewiser

katria said:

My Daughter  is 24  I am 58

From what I understand  about what happened to her  Apple   I Phone 13  is this

She has HSBC , Nationwide, Monzo  Apps on her  Phone ,, among many other Apps for her work, and gaming and social media , email, maps , music etc etc

Somehow some rogue  software got onto her phone ,,and managed to infect her banking Apps  ,  Monzo think it could have been their app  that was compromised 1st  ?????  they were very helpfull, as were Nationwide ,, a total of £258 was lost from her Monzo by fraudulent purchases and another £654.44  on Natiowide    but HSBC account was much worse  Her Current Account and Credit card were maxxed out to a total of £ 5596,42 p  and her deposit account was also emptied of £1800.  HSBC blamed her for defrauding them denied that HSBC  security had been breached , closed her account and  did not co-operate with Ombudsman at all ...

Monzo  were very helpful , Nationwide also very helpful , it seems the frauds were perpertrated from a source in Denmark  and most of the money has been recrecovered  by Monzo and Nationwide  and almost some has now made itself back to HSBC as well and they did refund about £3008 too my daughter  when Ombudsman investigated  ,, Only HSBC are being awkward and not repaying   about £4000 and have been very unhelpful  and difficult with the Ombudsman ,, HSBC still deny  that the account was compromised and that only so malfeasance by my daughter   could  have made it possible.

Wheras  Monzo and nationwide both knew exactly what happened  , they wont go into security or technical details   but somehow malicious software app got into thI Phone and cause the problem., The police  and fraud teams are aware as well  that there is a possible security flaw  ..

Thats all I know ,, Its HSBC's attitude that stinks

Have you been in touch with Apple if your daughter suspects a security flaw?  They do tend to move very quickly to fix these issues.

katria

My daughter has no idea how the  infected software got onto her  I Phone , we have not been told much about it by the Banks for for security reasons , Her phone has been examined by police and Apple , we are not technical people ,but some  unauthorised  software was found??

The reason we are angry with HSBC is  how they have responded , my daughter says the Ombudsman is still investigating the whole issue  and she does not want to share info at present ..

She is now getting on with her life , and Ombudsman has had her credit Score  cleaned up,,  

Im tired of all the problems   its making me worried about  technology

kaMelo

The problem is you haven't provided enough information to determine whether HSBC are in the wrong such as how money was transferred to other account.

Most declines like this are because the bank have technical evidence a payment was authorised with a registered device that is still in the possession of the account holder after the disputed payment was made.

Software doesn't just appear on a phone, to install unapproved software on an iPhone is not something that can happen accidentally.

I appreciate you may not know exactly what has happened and I suspect your daughter knows more than she has told you. That doesn't mean she wouldn't qualify for a full refund but with the information you've provided it's impossible to determine whether HSBC have done anything wrong.

Section62

katria said:

The reason we are angry with HSBC is  how they have responded , my daughter says the Ombudsman is still investigating the whole issue  and she does not want to share info at present ..

She is now getting on with her life , and Ombudsman has had her credit Score  cleaned up,,  

This doesn't make sense.  The FoS don't 'clean up' people's credit history (not score).

If, after investigating, they make a decision that a bank or other financial institution has wrongly reported information to a credit reference agency they can ask the financial institution to correct that information, but FoS can't do it themselves.

If FoS are still investigating the case and HSBC haven't admitted wrongdoing, then it would be highly irregular for FoS to be in touch with the credit reference agencies to 'clean up' your daughter's history.

At the start of the thread you said "...they detected what actually happened which was that an HSBC APP had been compromised  and from that hack it was able to get into her Nationwide and Monzo  APPS".  Now you've said it was completely different "rogue  software" which was the cause of the problem and "Monzo think it could have been their app  that was compromised 1st".

You've wrongly accused the HSBC App of being at fault here - you might want to go back and edit your first post to clarify that detail, because as it stands your comments about HSBC are possibly defamatory, and at the very least inaccurate and unfair.  Bear in mind making false statements can get people into serious legal problems.

The difference in approach between HSBC, Nationwide and Monzo may simply be due to the difference in the amounts at stake.  Banks an building societies may be willing to write off a loss of a few hundered pounds as it could cost more in time to investigate the case properly.  Clearly HSBC have more incentive to investigate how and why £7396.42 has been stolen.  Nationwide and Monzo's commercial decisions to refund and forget doesn't mean HSBC are in the wrong for taking the approach they have.