Civil Enforcement court claim (updated with outcome)

Kw6123

Sorry I have another question. I sent my N180 form to the courts (in mid Oct) along with a request for them to dismiss the case based on CE vs Chan. I wanted to start preparing my witness statement ready but can't remember some of the info as it's been over 2 years now. I made an SAR request to Civil Enforcement 4 weeks a go but it's been completely ignored. Is there anything I can do about them ignoring it or do I just have to proceed with what I can remember? 

Le_Kirk

Any company has 4 weeks to respond to a SAR. if you are using CEL v Chan based on sparse particulars, do you want them to send you the particulars?

Kw6123

It's now reached the time for me to write my witness statement for the upcoming court date and I just wanted to check a couple of things please. Firstly, is it worth using all of these points are or there any I should leave out : 
1 - Poor signage, one area has no signs and there's no lighting near any signs. Small print only
2 - Staff in KFC caused a delay by getting the food order wrong
3 - Staff in KFC caused a delay by taking 10 mins to locate a key for the baby changing room
4 - Several google reviews for this restuarant complain about the unclear signage and signs being barely noticeable meaning lots of people are being fined.

Next question, do I refer to any specific cases in my statement and provide copies of any paperwork from them? 

Finally, I see a lot of people mention the poor Particulars of Claim. Are they ok on the one I received (pic hopefully attached) or do I add anything in relation to this? 

Thank you so much for any help/advice given.
(Image removed by Forum Team) 

LDast

Kw6123 said:

Finally, I see a lot of people mention the poor Particulars of Claim. Are they ok on the one I received (pic hopefully attached) or do I add anything in relation to this? 

Can you see anywhere in those PoC what actual terms or conditions the driver is alleged to have breached?

Have a read of CPR 16.4, 16PD3 and 16PD7. Do the PoC state all facts necessary for the purpose of formulating a complete cause of action? The Claimant has failed to specify how Contract terms have been breached by the conduct of the Defendant in the PoC. 

Short answer is, they don't state the necessary facts. As the PoC are in breach of  CPR 16.4, 16PD3 and 16PD7, the claim should be struck out.  This should be the opening statement in your WS as a "Preliminary Matter".

Additionally, another preliminary matter should be a request for the court to dismiss the claim because it contravenes Schedule 4, Paragraph 4(5) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA). PoFA clearly stipulates that a creditor may not make a claim against the keeper of a vehicle for more than the amount of the unpaid parking charges as they stood when the notice to the driver was issued. The original Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued by the claimant was for £100. The claimant's current claim is for £182, which exceeds the amount of the unpaid parking charges as stated in the original notice. The claimant’s attempt to claim an unlawful amount constitutes an abuse of process and should not be allowed to proceed. You should respectfully request the judge to dismiss the claim on the basis of the claimant’s contravention of Schedule 4, Paragraph 4(5) of PoFA and thereby CPR 1.1, CPR 3.4(2)(a) and (b) and CPR 27.14 and to award costs to you, the defendant, for having to defend against this improper claim.

Those are two preliminary matters that should be used to start off your WS. You then go on to explain in your own words all the other points you raised above and anything else in your Defence. 

There are some exemplars of witness statements in the second post of the Newbies/FAQ thread that you can use as a framework for your own WS. 

Kw6123

LDast said:

Kw6123 said:

Finally, I see a lot of people mention the poor Particulars of Claim. Are they ok on the one I received (pic hopefully attached) or do I add anything in relation to this? 

Can you see anywhere in those PoC what actual terms or conditions the driver is alleged to have breached?

Have a read of CPR 16.4, 16PD3 and 16PD7. Do the PoC state all facts necessary for the purpose of formulating a complete cause of action? The Claimant has failed to specify how Contract terms have been breached by the conduct of the Defendant in the PoC. 

Short answer is, they don't state the necessary facts. As the PoC are in breach of  CPR 16.4, 16PD3 and 16PD7, the claim should be struck out.  This should be the opening statement in your WS as a "Preliminary Matter".

Additionally, another preliminary matter should be a request for the court to dismiss the claim because it contravenes Schedule 4, Paragraph 4(5) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA). PoFA clearly stipulates that a creditor may not make a claim against the keeper of a vehicle for more than the amount of the unpaid parking charges as they stood when the notice to the driver was issued. The original Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued by the claimant was for £100. The claimant's current claim is for £182, which exceeds the amount of the unpaid parking charges as stated in the original notice. The claimant’s attempt to claim an unlawful amount constitutes an abuse of process and should not be allowed to proceed. You should respectfully request the judge to dismiss the claim on the basis of the claimant’s contravention of Schedule 4, Paragraph 4(5) of PoFA and thereby CPR 1.1, CPR 3.4(2)(a) and (b) and CPR 27.14 and to award costs to you, the defendant, for having to defend against this improper claim.

Those are two preliminary matters that should be used to start off your WS. You then go on to explain in your own words all the other points you raised above and anything else in your Defence. 

There are some exemplars of witness statements in the second post of the Newbies/FAQ thread that you can use as a framework for your own WS. 

That's extremely helpful thank you very much. They're actually now asking me for £290 to cover their court fee and additional legal costs too, so I will definitely start with those two points you have mentioned. 

Gr1pr

Of course they are, so you object to those claimed costs and charges because this is the small claims track where charges are limited, so you ask for them to be thrown out too, be they £290 or £1290 , makes no difference, the typical costs they can legitimately claim are about £110 plus the PCN charge of £100 or less, if you lost 

Le_Kirk

Your witness statement backs up and supports what you wrote in your defence, therefore you can only add these parts: -

1 - Poor signage, one area has no signs and there's no lighting near any signs. Small print only
2 - Staff in KFC caused a delay by getting the food order wrong
3 - Staff in KFC caused a delay by taking 10 mins to locate a key for the baby changing room
4 - Several google reviews for this restuarant restaurant complain about the unclear signage and signs being barely noticeable meaning lots of people are being fined.

to your WS if they were in your original defence.

Kw6123

Sorry another question while I'm finalising my Witness statement.

The paragraph about the claimant's contravention of Sched 4, Para 4(5) of PoFA, can I use that if I am the driver of the car and not the registered keeper? The car stays at my address and is insured in my name but my dad is the registered keeper at DVLA.

KeithP

Kw6123 said:

Sorry another question while I'm finalising my Witness statement.

The paragraph about the claimant's contravention of Sched 4, Para 4(5) of PoFA, can I use that if I am the driver of the car and not the registered keeper? The car stays at my address and is insured in my name but my dad is the registered keeper at DVLA.

Did your Defence state that you were the driver at the time?
If so, then PoFA has no relevance.

Whilst on that point, Is the Defendant named on the Claim Form the Registered Keeper or the driver at the time of the alleged transgression?

Having now re-read the Particulars of Claim, it appears that the Claimant already knew the driver's identity before raising the Claim.

That in turn means that the paragraph starting "Additionally, another preliminary matter..." suggested by @LDast is probably not needed.

Kw6123

Ok thank you I will leave that paragraph out. The claim has been made against the driver at the time (myself), as although the PCN was originally sent to my father I then went through their appeal process myself and admitted to being the driver (based on advice from KFC before I found this forum). 

Is it worth me mentioning at any point how much they are trying to claim above the original amount, or just completely miss out anything relating to the cost?