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Angouleme Way Retail Park, Bury

Hi everyone!

I am a newbie and have read the newbie's session, but my problem is a bit tricky...

This is the FIRST letter I received from DRP on 24 July asking me for £170 for "Insufficient Paid Time" because "you may not have responded to previous letters due to an oversight [...]". I swear I didn't receive anything from them before. The issue date is 18 July as stated. 

The event was 13 May in Angouleme Way Retail Park, Bury. I now know it is famous because it has a council parking surrounded by the private landlord, managed by Smart Parking. I was one of the many victims paying at the nearest metre (I check the location code and paid by app) which belongs to the council but parked in the private land. 

I understand our golden rule is not to respond until a court order, roger that.

I guess they have rejected thousands of appeals for this reason before so I am sure they will give me a straight NO if I naively try to explain my situation to DRP. 

I am aware they must issue an invoice to me within 28 days, but this is the first letter I received after more than 2 months. However I guess they must have "records" to prove they have sent letters to me before. They will assume I received in two working days maximum although they are not recorded delivery (it is not fair!).

My questions is does it worth try to kill it using the 28 days rule at this stage? or be patient until I got something from legal letterhead?

My concern is it is hard to argue they don't have enough sign on site, coz it has been here for some years and Bury Council didn't rectify the situation so I predict this will lead me to a dead end, although I have proof for paying the council parking....

There are IPC and BPA logos at the bottom of letter.  

Many thanks in advance!
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Comments

  • KeithP
    KeithP Forumite Posts: 35,524
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    edited 26 July at 12:48AM
    Hello and welcome.

    The fourth post of the NEWBIES thread explains exactly how to deal with debt collector's letters, but to summarise that post - ignore them.

    The fact that you have received nothing previous is slightly worrying.
    Have you moved recently and not updated the Registered Keeper's address in your vehicle's Registration Document(V5c)?
    If so, I suggest you put that right straightaway - can easily be done on the DVLA's website. 
    You'll then need to tell Smart Parking to amend their records accordingly.
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Forumite Posts: 57,063
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    edited 26 July at 12:49AM
    Debt collectors are powerless and can safely be ignored as explained in the fourth post of the NEWBIES.

    Plan A is always a complaint from the registered keeper to their MP and the landowner and it is never too late to do so. You are however way past the time to appeal to Smart Parking.

    Ignore everything else unless you get a letter before/of claim from Smart, or a court claim. Tell the DPO of Smart if you move house before six years are up from the date of the alleged event.

    Do not reveal the driver's identity under any circumstances.

    Meanwhile, check the details on your V5C as failing to update it is the most common reason for not receiving the original PCN. Don't guess go and dig out your V5C.
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  • Foreverex
    Foreverex Forumite Posts: 7
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    Fruitcake said:
    Debt collectors are powerless and can safely be ignored as explained in the fourth post of the NEWBIES.

    Plan A is always a complaint from the registered keeper to their MP and the landowner and it is never too late to do so. You are however way past the time to appeal to Smart Parking.

    Ignore everything else unless you get a letter before/of claim from Smart, or a court claim. Tell the DPO of Smart if you move house before six years are up from the date of the alleged event.

    Do not reveal the driver's identity under any circumstances.

    Meanwhile, check the details on your V5C as failing to update it is the most common reason for not receiving the original PCN. Don't guess go and dig out your V5C.

    KeithP said:
    Hello and welcome.

    The fourth post of the NEWBIES thread explains exactly how to deal with debt collector's letters, but to summarise that post - ignore them.

    The fact that you have received nothing previous is slightly worrying.
    Have you moved recently and not updated the Registered Keeper's address in your vehicle's Registration Document(V5c)?
    If so, I suggest you put that right straightaway - can easily be done on the DVLA's website. 
    You'll then need to tell Smart Parking to amend their records accordingly.
    Thanks Keith and Fruitcake.

    No, I haven't moved home. The only thing is I sold my car on 30 June. It was still 47 days after the event. (I owned the car from 2021 and never moved home so I'm sure my address was right, unless DRP sent their first letter after 30 June and it went to the dealer or whoever they sold the car to)

    So are they still within the time limit to send me an invoice?
  • timpster
    timpster Forumite Posts: 10
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    I have dealt with quite a few invoices on this particular carpark for family and friends I have got them all quashed at the original invoice/debt collectors stage due to Smart parking invoices never being POFA compliant.

    If you want to be proactive then send Smart Parking a SAR to get copies of the invoices they should have sent to you. If they are anything like the 6 separate ones that I have seen on this particular carpark,  the initial invoice will have been dated therefore sent outside the 14 day relevant period for ANPR on this carpark and with non-statuary wording. 

     As the parking event was the  13/05  the 14 day relevant period for ANPR is 27/05 which is a Sunday, therefore to get to you in time it has to be dated no later than 23/05  to be deemed delivered on the second working day after the day on which it is posted.

    My guess is they applied for your details after you sold the car, if I recall I dealt with one that was dated well over a month after the event. Therefore as long as you haven’t indicated who is driving you would then write back to smart parking  informing them that there is no keeper liability and smart parking  wrote to the keeper without meeting the necessary conditions to pursue the keeper, and point out all the conditions they missed.

     If by a miracle they have complied with POFA the signage and the machine location are strong points at this carpark. There is no clear demarcation of the carparks and if you park at the side of Argos and read the sign on Argos's wall then the closest  machine that is obvious is the council one with a big Pay Here sign that looks like the same carpark, hence why I’ve had to deal with 6 on this very carpark. However I have never had to go this far on this carpark as all 6 invoices were out of time.

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Forumite Posts: 122,978
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    edited 26 July at 3:15PM
    Smart never use the PoFA, regardless of dates.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • Foreverex
    Foreverex Forumite Posts: 7
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    Thank you so much @timpster, very detailed, truly appericate. yes I parked at the back of Argos, just next to the traffic light to the Rock. I just wanted to pay then saw the first "Pay Here" oppsite to Argos... Will write to Smart Parking asking for the copy. Will post here again if any progress.

    Thank you @Coupon-mad. fingercrossed

  • Foreverex
    Foreverex Forumite Posts: 7
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    Hello again!

    I sent a SAR on 29/7 and Smart Parking wrote back on 4/8 asking for address proof, I provided but never heard back then. Since it is now more than a month and they yet provided a copy of letters that they claimed they have sent me, can I say they fail to provide proof within one month to demonstrate it is compliant with POFA thus no further request for payment will be valid from Smart Parking?

    Thank you again!
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Forumite Posts: 122,978
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    Have you tried logging in? Maybe it's cancelled.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • Foreverex
    Foreverex Forumite Posts: 7
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    Have you tried logging in? Maybe it's cancelled.
    I just got an email this morning (ie. 6 sept@10am). Apart from the photo they captured and excel containing the vehicle ANPR records, they say:
    - contravention date 13 May
    - checked DVLA system 8 June
    - date of notice 12 June
    - this reply was generated (print date) on 5 SEP

    According to the SAR, Smart Parking sent me only one notice and I never received.

    Am I right to conclude that:
    - due to the bank holidays the DPO still provide copy within the time limit?
    - they failed to send me Notice within 14(or 28? Still outside) days of the event ie. 13 May, which they failed to comply with POFA. Thus I can ignore/write back to tell them it is not compliant and invalid. I only mention I'm the registered keeper this has no liability 
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Forumite Posts: 122,978
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    KeithP said:
    Hello and welcome.

    The fourth post of the NEWBIES thread explains exactly how to deal with debt collector's letters, but to summarise that post - ignore them.

    The advice remains as above.

    Don't write to anyone.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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