Just lost my job on the day of contract exchange for first house

CSI_Yorkshire

Gavin83 said:

Schwarzwald said:

Gavin83 said:

Herzlos said:

That's not how it works int the UK - you need to be given notice and consultation. So I wouldn't tell anyone regarding the house move because legally the redundancy hasn't happened yet.

I'm quoting you as it was the closest post but several people have pitched this but is it true? Are employment laws based on the country the employer is based in or the employee? Logically it seems to me it would be based on the employers location and the location of the employee is largely irrelevant. If employers had to follow the employees local employment laws then I very much doubt any company would bother hiring someone abroad.

Besides, even if it was true they had to follow UK employment laws how would you even enforce it? You couldn't take them to court in the UK, they have no jurisdiction over the US and in all honesty the company wouldn't turn up and you'd have no way of enforcing any outcome of the case. I also suspect you'd struggle to take a US company to a US court to uphold British employment laws that don't exist in the US.

I'd be very surprised if you chose to get a job with a foreign company that their local rules didn't apply. I'm also actually quite surprised the bank didn't have a problem with the foreign employment from the start.

In answer to the question at hand I agree with some of the others. In your shoes I just wouldn't say anything and let the sale go through. The other option, assuming you haven't yet exchanged is to pull out. You'll only lose the money you've already spent (presumably a few thousand) but it is certainly a kick in the teeth of your vendor and of course you'll lose the house. If you have exchanged then you should 100% keep quiet. That includes not telling the solicitor.

long story v short: yes local employment law applies. period.

I assume you mean the laws local to the employee rather than the employer. Therefore I’ve got a few questions:

1) If your statement is true I would assume it also works in reverse. So if I had a British employer and chose to move to the US then my employer could choose to follow the (frankly worse) US employment laws and give me less holiday, sick pay, redundancy, etc?

2) Repeating my previous question how do you enforce your employment rights against a foreign based company that doesn’t operate in any way in the UK?

It's unusual to be employed directly by an American company whilst permanently physically located in the UK.  Most people who say "I work for an American company" actually mean "I legally work for a British subsidiary of an American company" - people who work for Amazon, for example, would probably describe themselves such - and, therefore, that is the assumption that most people make when answering a topic like this.

Conversely, to answer your point 1 - it would be unusual for a British employer to allow an employee to be permanently physically located in the USA for work without their employment contract being transferred to an American entity.  US Immigration might also have something to say on the matter.

Only the OP can tell us whether their employment contract is with a British or American legal entity.

JReacher1

elsien said:

housebuyer143 said:

As above, you need to go through the redundancy process in the UK which at a minimum is a notice period, redundancy pay if over 2 years at the job.

In your shoes I wouldn't tell anybody and press on. It's not worth losing your deposit.

The OP doesn’t specifically say it’s redundancy. They may have been let go for other reasons. It’s unusual to be locked out immediately just like that. So they need to clarify whether it is redundancy or not for proper advice to be given around the HR side of things. 

Some of the replies are presuming a situation that may or may not be the case.

Depends what he does. Anything IT based where you have access to customer data and you’ll have access to systems restricted instantly. 

A recent example is Twitter recently where they just locked everyone out the morning of the redundancy announcement. 

Newbie22FTB

Just wanted to say I'm really sorry to hear about your job loss and the timing of it all. How gut-wrenching!

I'd be inclined to say nothing until my hand is forced, in order to get the completion over the line. Good luck to you - whatever happens, what is meant to be will be xxx

mr_stripey

It's unusual to be employed directly by an American company whilst permanently physically located in the UK.  Most people who say "I work for an American company" actually mean "I legally work for a British subsidiary of an American company" - people who work for Amazon, for example, would probably describe themselves such - and, therefore, that is the assumption that most people make when answering a topic like this.

Conversely, to answer your point 1 - it would be unusual for a British employer to allow an employee to be permanently physically located in the USA for work without their employment contract being transferred to an American entity.  US Immigration might also have something to say on the matter.

Only the OP can tell us whether their employment contract is with a British or American legal entity.

Yes I can vouch for this. I work for an "American" company but they have a UK office and employees are are subject to UK (and previously EU) employment laws.

Occasionally a communication will come out from HQ for "all employees" but with a disclaimer about UK/EU employees being exempt.

By no means an expert, but it seems like US employment rights are virtually non existent. So hopefully the OP is employed by a UK subsidiary of the US company

sheramber

elsien said:

housebuyer143 said:

As above, you need to go through the redundancy process in the UK which at a minimum is a notice period, redundancy pay if over 2 years at the job.

In your shoes I wouldn't tell anybody and press on. It's not worth losing your deposit.

The OP doesn’t specifically say it’s redundancy. They may have been let go for other reasons. It’s unusual to be locked out immediately just like that. So they need to clarify whether it is redundancy or not for proper advice to be given around the HR side of things. 

Some of the replies are presuming a situation that may or may not be .

My husband worked as marketing manger for an electronics company when he was made redundant in 1990.

After being told he was accompanied to his desk to clear his belongings and no longer allowed access to the computer systems.

He was given 90 days paid notice but allowed to apply for other jobs without losing pay if he started working elsewhere.

Herzlos

Generally, if the UK section of a US company has enough staff to pay in GBP rather than USD, then there's almost certainly a UK entity dealing with the HR and payroll.  It's that UK entity you'd take to an employment tribunal for wrongful dismissal.

letom

Gavin83 said:

Schwarzwald said:

Gavin83 said:

Herzlos said:

That's not how it works int the UK - you need to be given notice and consultation. So I wouldn't tell anyone regarding the house move because legally the redundancy hasn't happened yet.

I'm quoting you as it was the closest post but several people have pitched this but is it true? Are employment laws based on the country the employer is based in or the employee? Logically it seems to me it would be based on the employers location and the location of the employee is largely irrelevant. If employers had to follow the employees local employment laws then I very much doubt any company would bother hiring someone abroad.

Besides, even if it was true they had to follow UK employment laws how would you even enforce it? You couldn't take them to court in the UK, they have no jurisdiction over the US and in all honesty the company wouldn't turn up and you'd have no way of enforcing any outcome of the case. I also suspect you'd struggle to take a US company to a US court to uphold British employment laws that don't exist in the US.

I'd be very surprised if you chose to get a job with a foreign company that their local rules didn't apply. I'm also actually quite surprised the bank didn't have a problem with the foreign employment from the start.

In answer to the question at hand I agree with some of the others. In your shoes I just wouldn't say anything and let the sale go through. The other option, assuming you haven't yet exchanged is to pull out. You'll only lose the money you've already spent (presumably a few thousand) but it is certainly a kick in the teeth of your vendor and of course you'll lose the house. If you have exchanged then you should 100% keep quiet. That includes not telling the solicitor.

long story v short: yes local employment law applies. period.

I assume you mean the laws local to the employee rather than the employer. Therefore I’ve got a few questions:

1) If your statement is true I would assume it also works in reverse. So if I had a British employer and chose to move to the US then my employer could choose to follow the (frankly worse) US employment laws and give me less holiday, sick pay, redundancy, etc?

2) Repeating my previous question how do you enforce your employment rights against a foreign based company that doesn’t operate in any way in the UK?

I think others have responded but I'll chip in to round out the response.

Simply, all companies operate under the local laws of the country their employees work in. Take it to the extreme, a UK company could simply make it's hq in a country with no labour laws then pay people nothing, which would be against UK law.

What happens in reality is a foreign company will always set up a UK branch or subsidiary who will sign up with HMRC and pay tax etc. If you wanted to sue your foreign company then it's possible, you just sue them in UK courts, and remember not following UK law is a criminal offence, so they'd likely be facing harsher penalties than just a civil case. Ultimately if they have no assets in the UK you can't sue them for anything, but that would mean they stop operating in the country effectively.

What a lot of people get confused with is when they go to another country and work but are on a contract from their own country. This is different, and generally companies will not do this as having employees physically working from another country risks the business creating a branch by accident in which they become liable for a whole bunch of taxes, most countries allow an employee to work in their country for up to e.g. 60 days but after this you need to register and pay taxes, or make tax filings. In this case, yes you're under a foreign contract, and a company does not need to go through redundancy or follow local employment law, as essentially for all intents and purposes you're working from the foreign country not the UK. However this clearly does not apply here as they clearly have worked a decent amount of time in the UK.

To answer the OP, if you report to either the mortgage broker or lawyer they will inform the bank who are well within their rights to pull your mortgage offer leaving you unable to complete and therefore losing your 10% deposit.

Sistergold

In this scenario I would see if I can exchange and complete on the same day. After that life will be based on pay mortgage first then look at any other bills. Everyone needs a place to stay and in this case there is a spouse to cover the mortgage. I would quickly be looking  for my professional job but take up any other job temporarily(Immediately).  This will reduce the rate of savings depletion. Any money that can come in helps. Also for your spouse’s sake (so that they don’t get fed up) make it a point not to sit around taking too long dwelling on the job loss. 

Gavin83

Some good responses to my questions on here. I was assuming the OP worked for an American company with no presence what so ever in the UK (except the OP of course!) but it does make more sense that it's an American company with a branch in the UK.

Still, it does happen. My old company only operated within the UK (no foreign presence what so ever) but still had several employees who lived permanently abroad. Never heard this issue crop up, even considering I managed one of them.

TBG01

caprikid1 said:

"Advise of a good mortgage broker here will be very valuable."

Yes but if you are using one... not the one you are using as they will be duty bound to tell the lender.

My Partner did a Job swap at the same time as exchange, it was fine but salary was like for like.

The OP is just as bound to tell the lender, yet I get the feeling the broker would be slated for telling the lender, whereas the OP is being encouraged to commit mortgage fraud.