RTS

QrizB

Gerry1 said:

Dolor said:

This explanation of how RTS works is offered by Dr Michael Fell (UCL Energy Institute):

Load shedding. It would seem that consumers with RTS are not protected from remote disconnection. That said, can anyone recall a single instance of this happening?

I very much doubt that load shedding applies to domestic E7 users.  Much more likely to apply to large industrial users such as aluminium smelters etc.

AFAIK my RTS can't disconnect me, it merely sends a signal to the meter to tell it which rate should be active; no load current flows through my RTS.

Load shedding is explicitly stated as a RTS function in the Ofgem presentation I linked here, together with the statement that's is rarely used:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80187734/#Comment_80187734

I hope it's obvious that a RTS can only shed the RTS-controlled loads, rather than the whole-house disconnection that's possible with a smart meter.

Gerry1

QrizB said:

Gerry1 said:

Dolor said:

This explanation of how RTS works is offered by Dr Michael Fell (UCL Energy Institute):

Load shedding. It would seem that consumers with RTS are not protected from remote disconnection. That said, can anyone recall a single instance of this happening?

I very much doubt that load shedding applies to domestic E7 users.  Much more likely to apply to large industrial users such as aluminium smelters etc.

AFAIK my RTS can't disconnect me, it merely sends a signal to the meter to tell it which rate should be active; no load current flows through my RTS.

Load shedding is explicitly stated as a RTS function in the Ofgem presentation I linked here, together with the statement that's is rarely used:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80187734/#Comment_80187734

I hope it's obvious that a RTS can only shed the RTS-controlled loads, rather than the whole-house disconnection that's possible with a smart meter.

I did read your post and the Ofgem presentation, and I don't disagree with you AFAIK.

My surmise is that RTS load shedding relates to large industrial users with ALCS equipment rather to domestic users with a few NSHs and an immersion heater.

Similarly, if your circuits are fed directly from a plain old 4-terminal meter as mine are,  then RTS can't disconnect you.

[Deleted User]

It is somewhat disingenuous to suggest that consumers should not install smart meters because of the risk of remote disconnection, and then argue it would never happen for domestic consumers who have RTS. The truth, to date, is that no remote meter disconnections have ever been reported. Power cuts for supply issues have always been managed at a regional level.

mmmmikey

[Deleted User] said:

It is somewhat disingenuous to suggest that consumers should not install smart meters because of the risk of remote disconnection, and then argue it would never happen for domestic consumers who have RTS. The truth, to date, is that no remote meter disconnections have ever been reported. Power cuts for supply issues have always been managed at a regional level.

Yes indeed. A certain amount of healthy scepticism when new technology is introduced is to be expected and nobody likes having change forced upon them. But there comes a time when the resistance to change takes on the air of sheer bloody mindedness and frankly starts to look a little foolish.

Such is the case with smart meters.

If the OP and others in a similar position choose to hold out as long as possible then so be it. It seems unlikely for the reasons given that the RTS meter will suddenly stop working when the signal is turned off, but that doesn't avoid the fact that they will be left with an obsolete metering system that will have to be replaced at some time anyway.

So go ahead and make your decision.

If you want to take up a place on the "awkward squad" list until you're eventually dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century (while the rest of us watch on in bemusement) then that is an option available to you.

But why not accept that you are going to have to have a smart meter at some point anyway? No need to  make a public announcement, just quietly get on with it. Why not make life easy for yourself by getting it swapped out at a time that suits you outside the heating season rather than wait for the final demand or the existing meter to fail?

inspectorperez

mmmmikey said:

[Deleted User] said:

It is somewhat disingenuous to suggest that consumers should not install smart meters because of the risk of remote disconnection, and then argue it would never happen for domestic consumers who have RTS. The truth, to date, is that no remote meter disconnections have ever been reported. Power cuts for supply issues have always been managed at a regional level.

Yes indeed. A certain amount of healthy scepticism when new technology is introduced is to be expected and nobody likes having change forced upon them. But there comes a time when the resistance to change takes on the air of sheer bloody mindedness and frankly starts to look a little foolish.

Such is the case with smart meters.

If the OP and others in a similar position choose to hold out as long as possible then so be it. It seems unlikely for the reasons given that the RTS meter will suddenly stop working when the signal is turned off, but that doesn't avoid the fact that they will be left with an obsolete metering system that will have to be replaced at some time anyway.

So go ahead and make your decision.

If you want to take up a place on the "awkward squad" list until you're eventually dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century (while the rest of us watch on in bemusement) then that is an option available to you.

But why not accept that you are going to have to have a smart meter at some point anyway? No need to  make a public announcement, just quietly get on with it. Why not make life easy for yourself by getting it swapped out at a time that suits you outside the heating season rather than wait for the final demand or the existing meter to fail?

I'd just like to give another viewpoint perhaps from one you might consider to be in the "awkward squad".

Without going into the whole scenario of my own situation with E7 tariff and old style analogue meter tucked away underneath a stairwell, located well away from the property. Having had 2 aborted attempts by provider to fit new smart meter, I was told by a member of the advanced metering team "off the record", to wait as long as possible before proceeding to change the technology that is already in place.

It seems there is a body of property owners out there who would be happy to proceed when the energy companies can confidently provide a workable solution and who should not be regarded as being obstructive!

CSI_Yorkshire

inspectorperez said:

mmmmikey said:

[Deleted User] said:

It is somewhat disingenuous to suggest that consumers should not install smart meters because of the risk of remote disconnection, and then argue it would never happen for domestic consumers who have RTS. The truth, to date, is that no remote meter disconnections have ever been reported. Power cuts for supply issues have always been managed at a regional level.

Yes indeed. A certain amount of healthy scepticism when new technology is introduced is to be expected and nobody likes having change forced upon them. But there comes a time when the resistance to change takes on the air of sheer bloody mindedness and frankly starts to look a little foolish.

Such is the case with smart meters.

If the OP and others in a similar position choose to hold out as long as possible then so be it. It seems unlikely for the reasons given that the RTS meter will suddenly stop working when the signal is turned off, but that doesn't avoid the fact that they will be left with an obsolete metering system that will have to be replaced at some time anyway.

So go ahead and make your decision.

If you want to take up a place on the "awkward squad" list until you're eventually dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century (while the rest of us watch on in bemusement) then that is an option available to you.

But why not accept that you are going to have to have a smart meter at some point anyway? No need to  make a public announcement, just quietly get on with it. Why not make life easy for yourself by getting it swapped out at a time that suits you outside the heating season rather than wait for the final demand or the existing meter to fail?

I'd just like to give another viewpoint perhaps from one you might consider to be in the "awkward squad".

Without going into the whole scenario of my own situation with E7 tariff and old style analogue meter tucked away underneath a stairwell, located well away from the property. Having had 2 aborted attempts by provider to fit new smart meter, I was told by a member of the advanced metering team "off the record", to wait as long as possible before proceeding to change the technology that is already in place.

It seems there is a body of property owners out there who would be happy to proceed when the energy companies can confidently provide a workable solution and who should not be regarded as being obstructive!

"I'm happy to have one but the suppliers say they can't make one work in my house" is a long way away from "I'm not having one, you can't make me have one, it's all a scam, they just want to charge me more, they all go wrong, what about my brainwaves..."

mmmmikey

inspectorperez said:

mmmmikey said:

[Deleted User] said:

It is somewhat disingenuous to suggest that consumers should not install smart meters because of the risk of remote disconnection, and then argue it would never happen for domestic consumers who have RTS. The truth, to date, is that no remote meter disconnections have ever been reported. Power cuts for supply issues have always been managed at a regional level.

Yes indeed. A certain amount of healthy scepticism when new technology is introduced is to be expected and nobody likes having change forced upon them. But there comes a time when the resistance to change takes on the air of sheer bloody mindedness and frankly starts to look a little foolish.

Such is the case with smart meters.

If the OP and others in a similar position choose to hold out as long as possible then so be it. It seems unlikely for the reasons given that the RTS meter will suddenly stop working when the signal is turned off, but that doesn't avoid the fact that they will be left with an obsolete metering system that will have to be replaced at some time anyway.

So go ahead and make your decision.

If you want to take up a place on the "awkward squad" list until you're eventually dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century (while the rest of us watch on in bemusement) then that is an option available to you.

But why not accept that you are going to have to have a smart meter at some point anyway? No need to  make a public announcement, just quietly get on with it. Why not make life easy for yourself by getting it swapped out at a time that suits you outside the heating season rather than wait for the final demand or the existing meter to fail?

I'd just like to give another viewpoint perhaps from one you might consider to be in the "awkward squad".

Without going into the whole scenario of my own situation with E7 tariff and old style analogue meter tucked away underneath a stairwell, located well away from the property. Having had 2 aborted attempts by provider to fit new smart meter, I was told by a member of the advanced metering team "off the record", to wait as long as possible before proceeding to change the technology that is already in place.

It seems there is a body of property owners out there who would be happy to proceed when the energy companies can confidently provide a workable solution and who should not be regarded as being obstructive!

All very valid reasons and it wasn't my intention to brand those who are holding back for sound reasons as awkward.

The point is that there is a body of people (thankfully dwindling) who have entrenched themselves in the position of not wanting a smart meter and are inventing all kinds of spurious reasons to justify their standpoint. I certainly wouldn't put you in that category.