RTS

angieo1970

I'm.getting mixed messages from EDF. One generic email tells me I'll lose functionality when RTS is switched off if I don't agree to having a smart meter fitted. Another email sent directly to me from customer services (answering my concerned email to them) stating because I have a multirate single phase watt hour metre fitted I will be fine. I was advised it will just turn the multirate metre to a standard e7 metre si I don't need to do anything. The mulirate metre was fitted before we bought the house so is a modern metre. However, when I questioned why I'm being told two different things and which one is correct? They've blanked me? 

So now I'm confused.

Keep_pedalling

The generic email is correct, once the the RTS service  is  turned off, you will loose the ability to switch to the night rate so you will need  to change to a smart meter. Don’t leave this to the last minute as you could find yourself stuck with no night rate electricity for months with all the other customers who failed to act on time.

[Deleted User]

The question that I would asking is ‘if a multi-rate meter is all that I need then why do I have an RTS fitted’?  

I am sure that someone will be along who knows more about these types of meter.

Edit: From a recent post on another forum:

‘You appear to have an Ampy 5235d-N Multi Rate Watt Hour Meter, which can be used for Economy 7 purposes. There will be a Timeswitch or Radio Teleswitch nearby to control the times that the meter switches between the two rates. Whichever rate number is currently flashing is the active rate and the one that's solid is the inactive rate.’

I suspect that the reason that you are being blanked by CS is because the person on the end of the phone is nothing more than a ‘script monkey’. They need to refer your question to their meter team.

Jonboy_1984

The RTS box on your wall gets an on/off signal from the RTS service (there are 16 signals and your box will be tuned to pay attention one of them depending on your location and how it was set up). This triggers the cheaper rate recording in the very basic meter you have next to it (we had the same meter type nearly 20 years ago)

When the RTS service is switched off, it will either depending on the original specifications of the RTS box:

1) get stuck in its current position of on or off.

2) some have an internal clock backup, and that will likely start to drift over time giving you cheap energy at unexpected times, which may be unhelpful if your heating systems have their own clocks as well (our last property was an hour behind, which meant we could wash clothes and shower on the cheaper rate ) . 

CSI_Yorkshire

They're confused because (as Jonboy notes), either could happen.

From my understanding of the systems it's likely that you will just end up with a drifting E7 clock - but nobody can guarantee that this is what will happen and the only way to be sure to have 'normal' E7 again is to change the meter (I don't think that model of Ampy has an internal clock to do it for you).

[Deleted User]

is to change the meter

Ofgem has mandated that suppliers are to fix RTS issues either by fitting a smart meter or by A N Other technical solution. It follows that the existing meter will be deemed to be end-of-life and the supplier can now implement a meter change without the consumer’s approval.

mmmmikey

Regardless of when RTS is finally switched off, when it is you are not going to have a guaranteed to work system that will potentially cause you problems in the future. From that perspective there is a school of thought that says the best thing to do is to get it changed for a smart meter now rather than wait for it to eventually stop working. 

Gerry1

Keep_pedalling said:

The generic email is correct, once the the RTS service  is  turned off, you will loose the ability to switch to the night rate so you will need  to change to a smart meter. Don’t leave this to the last minute as you could find yourself stuck with no night rate electricity for months with all the other customers who failed to act on time.

Oh dear, scaremongering rules.  The domestic RTS system does not send one signal to switch night rate on and another to turn it off seven hours later.  If it did, it would  be unreliable and wide open to fraud.

Imagine you have a good signal at 0130 when LF signals travel further because it's dark.  Your cheap rate gets switched on, and the nearby gas holder is empty.

Come 0830, the sun is shining, LF propagation is much weaker and the gasholder is full and blocks the signal.  Your RTS fails to decode the 'off' signal so you stay on the cheap rate.

Do you seriously think that such a stupid system would ever have been introduced?  All sorts of developments could have given unintended cheap electricity, e.g. new tower blocks going up, a transmitter failure, transmitter maintenance work, mast collapses etc.

Of course, the fatal flaw is that users could have had permanent cheap rate simply by screening their RTSs in the early hours of the morning so that they would never decode the 'wake up it's now peak rate' command.

The suppliers get fined if they don't meet their smart meter targets so they have no reason to refute these nonsensical claims, the FUD that E7 people will boil or freeze suits them very well.

[Deleted User]

This explanation of how RTS works is offered by Dr Michael Fell (UCL Energy Institute):

Load shedding. It would seem that consumers with RTS are not protected from remote disconnection. That said, can anyone recall a single instance of this happening?

CSI_Yorkshire

[Deleted User] said:

Load shedding. It would seem that consumers with RTS are not protected from remote disconnection. That said, can anyone recall a single instance of this happening?

It's funny how "OMG, they can remotely turn off my meter" is a big complaint from the anti-smart-meter bunch, but has already been possible for decades.

Gerry1

[Deleted User] said:

This explanation of how RTS works is offered by Dr Michael Fell (UCL Energy Institute):

Load shedding. It would seem that consumers with RTS are not protected from remote disconnection. That said, can anyone recall a single instance of this happening?

I very much doubt that load shedding applies to domestic E7 users.  Much more likely to apply to large industrial users such as aluminium smelters etc.

AFAIK my RTS can't disconnect me, it merely sends a signal to the meter to tell it which rate should be active; no load current flows through my RTS.

Note that for tariff switching the RTS stores tariff or operating instructions (i.e. it follows a stored ToD programme rather than instant instructions) but for load shedding (presumably industrial) the commands are instant.