Doesn't a solicitor store/log a will

Spendless

Back in Autumn 2005 my Nan made a will. She died earlier this year and my Mum (who was the sole executor) had to go to the solicitors she had made it with and retrieve it. I *don't think* another copy was held by Nan because she spent the last 8 years of her life in a care home with dementia and Mum cleared Nan's property when  she moved into care and didn't come across one but Nan before entering care was throwing away all sort of stuff that we know was there, so the will she may have binned.

Roll forward roughly 10 years and my parents make a will, they have a copy at home and believe they also have another at their solicitors (same one Nan used).

Me and DH recently made a will at a (different)  solicitors. We have been sent our wills to sign and have witnessed. I then said to DH do we then return them or do we just keep them with us. DH believes we just keep them. How does anyone know we made a will then? We can certainly tell our beneficiaries we have one and where to find it. What if someone after our death decided they don't like the look of what is in our will and destroys it  and says we didn't have one because what intestacy would do would favour them more (in our case that's unlikely because you have to reach the disaster scenario before we've deviated from what intestacy would do, I'm just curious) 

Why did my Nan's will and possibly the only copy end be kept  at a solicitors meanwhile  it doesn't look like ours does. Has a change happened overt these years. 

boingy

Usually the solicitor you used will store the original of the will for free for your lifetime. You just need to make sure various members of your family and maybe some friends know which solicitor it is with.

GrumpyDil

My understanding is that if the solicitors are going to act as executors they will store the willfree of charge or you could agree to pay them to store the will, although there could be complications of they cease trading etc. 

Alter alternatively Google gov.Uk store a will as you can use the courts service to store them. 

Keep_pedalling

GrumpyDil said:

My understanding is that if the solicitors are going to act as executors they will store the willfree of charge or you could agree to pay them to store the will, although there could be complications of they cease trading etc. 

Alter alternatively Google gov.Uk store a will as you can use the courts service to store them. J

Most solicitors will store the will free of charge regardless of who is made executor. The have to retain a client file anyway so whether that contains a copy of the will or the original does not really matter. 

Mojisola

Another option is to store your signed wills with the Probate Service - www.gov.uk/government/publications/store-a-will-with-the-probate-service/how-to-store-a-will-with-the-probate-service
Keep a copy at home and make sure your executors have the certificate number they will need to retrieve the will - ours have got this in several forms (paper, computer, photo) so it doesn't get lost.

400ixl

When we did ours we found very few who would retain a copy free of charge, all charged as small annual fee if you wanted them retained. So don't take it for granted that they will have a copy.

Ours also supplied multiple copies which has meant that as well as them having a copy, we have one, and there are two other copies with trusted parties at different locations, so fairly well covered against loss (including accidents such as fire or flood, and the business ceasing trading).

Spendless

Thanks for the replies. I think what has surprised me is that there is only one will each (we made mirror wills so one says my name on it the other DH name). As people talk about 'a copy of the will' I'd sort of assumed there was always two of each will one retained/logged somewhere at the solicitors and  the other (the 'copy') for you to keep at home. I realise now this probably isn't usually the case.
 It looks like my Nan had her only will  kept at the solicitors and either back then this was FOC or she paid for it, but I can't see it was an annual fee as my Mum had POA for the 8 years she was in a care home and never mentioned paying this bill. I think my parents are perhaps under a mistaken belief that they also have their wills lodged with the solicitors rather than the only documents are in their possession.

So that fetches me to the next question which is hypothetical. Imagine our will leaves 90% to DS and 10% to DD, but after me and DH depart, what is to stop DD coming across the only will we have at our house, seeing it doesn't favour her to the  same amount intestacy does and destroys it on the sly and says to her brother 'nope they never left a will, I know they said they did, but I can't find it they must have ripped it up' What stops that scenario happening is it just what Mojisola has posted and if you don't do that that's the chance you're taking?

  
 

Savvy_Sue

Spendless said:

Thanks for the replies. I think what has surprised me is that there is only one will each (we made mirror wills so one says my name on it the other DH name). As people talk about 'a copy of the will' I'd sort of assumed there was always two of each will one retained/logged somewhere at the solicitors and  the other (the 'copy') for you to keep at home. I realise now this probably isn't usually the case.

We've made wills twice. Can't remember what we did the first time, but certainly the second time, we have a copy and the solicitor has the original. That's also what happened with our parents: we'd seen their wills (although they didn't have to show us) but the original was with the solicitor, and after each death we had to go to the solicitor to retrieve the original. The solicitor was NOT an executor. 

Spendless said:

 It looks like my Nan had her only will  kept at the solicitors and either back then this was FOC or she paid for it, but I can't see it was an annual fee as my Mum had POA for the 8 years she was in a care home and never mentioned paying this bill. I think my parents are perhaps under a mistaken belief that they also have their wills lodged with the solicitors rather than the only documents are in their possession.

Never paid anything for the storage. But it would definitely be worth your parents checking where the original is: in their possession, or with the solicitor? 

Spendless said:

So that fetches me to the next question which is hypothetical. Imagine our will leaves 90% to DS and 10% to DD, but after me and DH depart, what is to stop DD coming across the only will we have at our house, seeing it doesn't favour her to the  same amount intestacy does and destroys it on the sly and says to her brother 'nope they never left a will, I know they said they did, but I can't find it they must have ripped it up' What stops that scenario happening is it just what Mojisola has posted and if you don't do that that's the chance you're taking?

Absolutely nothing. If your DS was suspicious, he could contact the solicitor. If they had a copy then it's possible he could mount a challenge, BUT as the original had been destroyed then he'd have a hard job doing so, because he'd need to prove that you had NOT destroyed the original, which you're always at liberty to do. Of course, if the solicitor produced the original, your DD's scheme would fail. 

Which is why lodging the original with the probate service is an intelligent thing to do, but if your DD knew the contents prior to your death, it wouldn't stop her persuading you to change the will in HER favour, and if she produced that will (original not copy) then I believe it would trump whatever was lodged. 

(I realise, of course, that the chances of you doing this to your DD and DS is unlikely to begin with, and if you did you'd have good reason, and that neither your DD nor your DS is as scheming and manipulative as this - but we know such people exist!)

Spendless

Savvy_Sue said:

Spendless said:

Thanks for the replies. I think what has surprised me is that there is only one will each (we made mirror wills so one says my name on it the other DH name). As people talk about 'a copy of the will' I'd sort of assumed there was always two of each will one retained/logged somewhere at the solicitors and  the other (the 'copy') for you to keep at home. I realise now this probably isn't usually the case.

We've made wills twice. Can't remember what we did the first time, but certainly the second time, we have a copy and the solicitor has the original. That's also what happened with our parents: we'd seen their wills (although they didn't have to show us) but the original was with the solicitor, and after each death we had to go to the solicitor to retrieve the original. The solicitor was NOT an executor. 

Spendless said:

 It looks like my Nan had her only will  kept at the solicitors and either back then this was FOC or she paid for it, but I can't see it was an annual fee as my Mum had POA for the 8 years she was in a care home and never mentioned paying this bill. I think my parents are perhaps under a mistaken belief that they also have their wills lodged with the solicitors rather than the only documents are in their possession.

Never paid anything for the storage. But it would definitely be worth your parents checking where the original is: in their possession, or with the solicitor? 

Spendless said:

So that fetches me to the next question which is hypothetical. Imagine our will leaves 90% to DS and 10% to DD, but after me and DH depart, what is to stop DD coming across the only will we have at our house, seeing it doesn't favour her to the  same amount intestacy does and destroys it on the sly and says to her brother 'nope they never left a will, I know they said they did, but I can't find it they must have ripped it up' What stops that scenario happening is it just what Mojisola has posted and if you don't do that that's the chance you're taking?

Absolutely nothing. If your DS was suspicious, he could contact the solicitor. If they had a copy then it's possible he could mount a challenge, BUT as the original had been destroyed then he'd have a hard job doing so, because he'd need to prove that you had NOT destroyed the original, which you're always at liberty to do. Of course, if the solicitor produced the original, your DD's scheme would fail. 

Which is why lodging the original with the probate service is an intelligent thing to do, but if your DD knew the contents prior to your death, it wouldn't stop her persuading you to change the will in HER favour, and if she produced that will (original not copy) then I believe it would trump whatever was lodged. 

(I realise, of course, that the chances of you doing this to your DD and DS is unlikely to begin with, and if you did you'd have good reason, and that neither your DD nor your DS is as scheming and manipulative as this - but we know such people exist!)

Ok, but in our case we have only got ONE will (one in my name and one in DH's name - mirror wills) and these are the originals. Nothing else exists AFAIK. This is where I'm getting confused.

(Yeah, it's completely hypothetical, you have to get to the point that me, DH, both kids and any grandchildren they may give us have all gone before we differentiate from what intestacy does)  

Keep_pedalling

Spendless said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Spendless said:

Thanks for the replies. I think what has surprised me is that there is only one will each (we made mirror wills so one says my name on it the other DH name). As people talk about 'a copy of the will' I'd sort of assumed there was always two of each will one retained/logged somewhere at the solicitors and  the other (the 'copy') for you to keep at home. I realise now this probably isn't usually the case.

We've made wills twice. Can't remember what we did the first time, but certainly the second time, we have a copy and the solicitor has the original. That's also what happened with our parents: we'd seen their wills (although they didn't have to show us) but the original was with the solicitor, and after each death we had to go to the solicitor to retrieve the original. The solicitor was NOT an executor. 

Spendless said:

 It looks like my Nan had her only will  kept at the solicitors and either back then this was FOC or she paid for it, but I can't see it was an annual fee as my Mum had POA for the 8 years she was in a care home and never mentioned paying this bill. I think my parents are perhaps under a mistaken belief that they also have their wills lodged with the solicitors rather than the only documents are in their possession.

Never paid anything for the storage. But it would definitely be worth your parents checking where the original is: in their possession, or with the solicitor? 

Spendless said:

So that fetches me to the next question which is hypothetical. Imagine our will leaves 90% to DS and 10% to DD, but after me and DH depart, what is to stop DD coming across the only will we have at our house, seeing it doesn't favour her to the  same amount intestacy does and destroys it on the sly and says to her brother 'nope they never left a will, I know they said they did, but I can't find it they must have ripped it up' What stops that scenario happening is it just what Mojisola has posted and if you don't do that that's the chance you're taking?

Absolutely nothing. If your DS was suspicious, he could contact the solicitor. If they had a copy then it's possible he could mount a challenge, BUT as the original had been destroyed then he'd have a hard job doing so, because he'd need to prove that you had NOT destroyed the original, which you're always at liberty to do. Of course, if the solicitor produced the original, your DD's scheme would fail. 

Which is why lodging the original with the probate service is an intelligent thing to do, but if your DD knew the contents prior to your death, it wouldn't stop her persuading you to change the will in HER favour, and if she produced that will (original not copy) then I believe it would trump whatever was lodged. 

(I realise, of course, that the chances of you doing this to your DD and DS is unlikely to begin with, and if you did you'd have good reason, and that neither your DD nor your DS is as scheming and manipulative as this - but we know such people exist!)

Ok, but in our case we have only got ONE will (one in my name and one in DH's name - mirror wills) and these are the originals. Nothing else exists AFAIK. This is where I'm getting confused.

(Yeah, it's completely hypothetical, you have to get to the point that me, DH, both kids and any grandchildren they may give us have all gone before we differentiate from what intestacy does)  

To apply for probate you need the original will and that is the one that needs to be in secure storage. Ours are still held by our solicitor, but we have 3 copies, one for each executor. 

user1977

Spendless said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Spendless said:

Thanks for the replies. I think what has surprised me is that there is only one will each (we made mirror wills so one says my name on it the other DH name). As people talk about 'a copy of the will' I'd sort of assumed there was always two of each will one retained/logged somewhere at the solicitors and  the other (the 'copy') for you to keep at home. I realise now this probably isn't usually the case.

We've made wills twice. Can't remember what we did the first time, but certainly the second time, we have a copy and the solicitor has the original. That's also what happened with our parents: we'd seen their wills (although they didn't have to show us) but the original was with the solicitor, and after each death we had to go to the solicitor to retrieve the original. The solicitor was NOT an executor. 

Spendless said:

 It looks like my Nan had her only will  kept at the solicitors and either back then this was FOC or she paid for it, but I can't see it was an annual fee as my Mum had POA for the 8 years she was in a care home and never mentioned paying this bill. I think my parents are perhaps under a mistaken belief that they also have their wills lodged with the solicitors rather than the only documents are in their possession.

Never paid anything for the storage. But it would definitely be worth your parents checking where the original is: in their possession, or with the solicitor? 

Spendless said:

So that fetches me to the next question which is hypothetical. Imagine our will leaves 90% to DS and 10% to DD, but after me and DH depart, what is to stop DD coming across the only will we have at our house, seeing it doesn't favour her to the  same amount intestacy does and destroys it on the sly and says to her brother 'nope they never left a will, I know they said they did, but I can't find it they must have ripped it up' What stops that scenario happening is it just what Mojisola has posted and if you don't do that that's the chance you're taking?

Absolutely nothing. If your DS was suspicious, he could contact the solicitor. If they had a copy then it's possible he could mount a challenge, BUT as the original had been destroyed then he'd have a hard job doing so, because he'd need to prove that you had NOT destroyed the original, which you're always at liberty to do. Of course, if the solicitor produced the original, your DD's scheme would fail. 

Which is why lodging the original with the probate service is an intelligent thing to do, but if your DD knew the contents prior to your death, it wouldn't stop her persuading you to change the will in HER favour, and if she produced that will (original not copy) then I believe it would trump whatever was lodged. 

(I realise, of course, that the chances of you doing this to your DD and DS is unlikely to begin with, and if you did you'd have good reason, and that neither your DD nor your DS is as scheming and manipulative as this - but we know such people exist!)

Ok, but in our case we have only got ONE will (one in my name and one in DH's name - mirror wills) and these are the originals. Nothing else exists AFAIK. This is where I'm getting confused.

Your solicitor's file exists, and even if they never saw your signed Wills, it would be pretty good evidence of what you probably signed at the time, if somebody was to query it later.