Help please as i'm unsure

marcus6

calcotti said:

Adding a partner to income based ESA does not 'trigger' a change to UC.

If you have been living alone and no one is receiving a benefit for looking after you then you will have been entitled to Severe Disability Premium in your ESA. When you have your partner living with you then you will no longer entitled to SDP.

If your partner works then the earnings will be deducted from the ESA (less a disregard of £20/week). We would be likely to be better off on UC.

If she works for more than 24 hours/week your income based ESA would stop. Is any of your ESA contribution based.

Thank you!!

yea i don't get SDP as my son lives with me, yea i seen that we would get more on UC why is that??

How would i know if i get contribution based as well??

calcotti

marcus6 said:

i'm on income related, but how would i know if i'm also on contributions based as well?? 

If you are not clear ring ESA.

HillStreetBlues

If you have the P60U  you get at the end of the tax year that will tell you (if all income based taxable will be zero)
How much you get paid can also tell I believe.

Spoonie_Turtle

HillStreetBlues said:

If you have the P60U  you get at the end of the tax year that will tell you (if all income based tax paid will be zero)
How much you get paid can also tell I believe.

As far as I understand it can tell you if any of it is income-related, but if any of it is income-related it can't tell you if there's any underlying contributions-based entitlement as well.

The P60U should help, as you say.

marcus6

HillStreetBlues said:

If you have the P60U  you get at the end of the tax year that will tell you (if all income based taxable will be zero)
How much you get paid can also tell I believe.

yea i just found that, and tax paid is 0 so i'm only on income related right?

HillStreetBlues

marcus6 said:

HillStreetBlues said:

If you have the P60U  you get at the end of the tax year that will tell you (if all income based taxable will be zero)
How much you get paid can also tell I believe.

yea i just found that, and tax paid is 0 so i'm only on income related right?

Sorry, should have been taxable.

Muttleythefrog

elsien said:

Why would they add her to your claim when she’s not entitled to any benefits? Will your claim not just stay as it is now? 

(It's unfortunately complicated.... since not being entitled to public funds does not mean you are not considered in relation to household... for example if he gets Severe Disability Premium due to meeting conditions and living alone then that'd be lost... but bizarrely if he gets enhanced disability premium that should (in my case they didn't and I queried it and they changed mind) be paid at the couple rate...i.e. it is possible for different elements of a benefit payment to be differently affected. Public funds is actually something that has to be spelled out... since there's a lot of benefits and considerations plus things like contribution based benefits are not considered as public funds. Obviously her earnings/savings would be considered as part of an income related claim. For Universal Credit the ineligible partner would still have to apply and be joined to claim of partner before then being refused payment due to immigration status. To make everything worse we know benefits and immigration law are not entirely compatible... this is best evidenced through council tax run by individual councils whereby a technical breach of the law can innocently occur in applying council tax rules on single person discount and council tax support since it is possible public funds awarded would increase even though the overall help decreases and bill goes up... that's caused by single person discount not being considered a public fund but council tax support being consider such.)

To the actual post... I am not sure at all if it would trigger move to U/C... I would guess not but that's not helpful. I do think you should look at whether you have an underlying entitlement to Contrib based ESA (probably a phone call to them is necessary.. because if you're getting income related ESA it can conceal that underlying entitlement that would exist if you worked sufficiently in the preceding years to claiming) and whether following partner moving in (you could look tomorrow but I imagine you've got a lot to deal with now and soon with other big changes) it would be beneficial to apply for UC (and if entitled have ESA switched to Contrib based)... bear in mind the award of LCW or LCWRA can be carried to U/C so it shouldn't trigger any new assessment. Worth saying U/C is far far far better administratively for handling situations where a NRPF condition exists for a claimant/partner. Obviously as you plan to do on partner moving in let ESA know and any other affected benefits such as Council regarding council tax support... PIP wouldn't need informing if you get that but obviously in any future review you can describe the help they provide if relevant and applicable. If your partner does plan to work in the UK in the near future then probably considering whether UC is beneficial could shift right up the agenda. Caveat that obviously if she does earn or have significant savings it could affect entitlement to income related (means tested) benefits.

"yea i seen that we would get more on UC why is that??" - bottom line... different benefit differently designed and differently run with different elements... I am sure others will correct me here but as a general rule I think those who substantially benefit from disability premiums with ESA they tended to be better off on ESA but otherwise many would be better off on U/C which has no such premiums. The temporary £20 increase to U/C but not other benefits during pandemic was what triggered me and my foreign partner to look at what was best and it was U/C so we applied and my ESA moved to Contrib based (gets deducted from U/C payment). 

Slightly off topic...Having been through the journey you're starting I would advise being administratively switched on in terms of trying to get your partner added to, or responsible for paying, bills, phone contracts as well as primarily trying to get them a UK bank account ASAP (or added to yours!).... try to get them added to council tax bill. It's useful documentation for evidence of cohabitation down line... but also creating a credit record where I presume she'll be at long disadvantage of having no history and not being eligible to register to vote. As soon as can get accepted for a credit card she probably should try get one to help raise credit record... perhaps a credit building card and in future times a one more suited to her circumstances be it high spending or travelling abroad etc. Oh and... make sure every time she enters the UK she gets her passport stamped if ever there is a future intention (after getting Indefinite Leave) to naturalise as UK citizen.. as it's primary evidence of presence here they use.

marcus6

Muttleythefrog said:

elsien said:

Why would they add her to your claim when she’s not entitled to any benefits? Will your claim not just stay as it is now? 

(It's unfortunately complicated.... since not being entitled to public funds does not mean you are not considered in relation to household... for example if he gets Severe Disability Premium due to meeting conditions and living alone then that'd be lost... but bizarrely if he gets enhanced disability premium that should (in my case they didn't and I queried it and they changed mind) be paid at the couple rate...i.e. it is possible for different elements of a benefit payment to be differently affected. Public funds is actually something that has to be spelled out... since there's a lot of benefits and considerations plus things like contribution based benefits are not considered as public funds. Obviously her earnings/savings would be considered as part of an income related claim. For Universal Credit the ineligible partner would still have to apply and be joined to claim of partner before then being refused payment due to immigration status. To make everything worse we know benefits and immigration law are not entirely compatible... this is best evidenced through council tax run by individual councils whereby a technical breach of the law can innocently occur in applying council tax rules on single person discount and council tax support since it is possible public funds awarded would increase even though the overall help decreases and bill goes up... that's caused by single person discount not being considered a public fund but council tax support being consider such.)

To the actual post... I am not sure at all if it would trigger move to U/C... I would guess not but that's not helpful. I do think you should look at whether you have an underlying entitlement to Contrib based ESA (probably a phone call to them is necessary.. because if you're getting income related ESA it can conceal that underlying entitlement that would exist if you worked sufficiently in the preceding years to claiming) and whether following partner moving in (you could look tomorrow but I imagine you've got a lot to deal with now and soon with other big changes) it would be beneficial to apply for UC (and if entitled have ESA switched to Contrib based)... bear in mind the award of LCW or LCWRA can be carried to U/C so it shouldn't trigger any new assessment. Worth saying U/C is far far far better administratively for handling situations where a NRPF condition exists for a claimant/partner. Obviously as you plan to do on partner moving in let ESA know and any other affected benefits such as Council regarding council tax support... PIP wouldn't need informing if you get that but obviously in any future review you can describe the help they provide if relevant and applicable. If your partner does plan to work in the UK in the near future then probably considering whether UC is beneficial could shift right up the agenda. Caveat that obviously if she does earn or have significant savings it could affect entitlement to income related (means tested) benefits.

"yea i seen that we would get more on UC why is that??" - bottom line... different benefit differently designed and differently run with different elements... I am sure others will correct me here but as a general rule I think those who substantially benefit from disability premiums with ESA they tended to be better off on ESA but otherwise many would be better off on U/C which has no such premiums. The temporary £20 increase to U/C but not other benefits during pandemic was what triggered me and my foreign partner to look at what was best and it was U/C so we applied and my ESA moved to Contrib based (gets deducted from U/C payment). 

Slightly off topic...Having been through the journey you're starting I would advise being administratively switched on in terms of trying to get your partner added to, or responsible for paying, bills, phone contracts as well as primarily trying to get them a UK bank account ASAP (or added to yours!).... try to get them added to council tax bill. It's useful documentation for evidence of cohabitation down line... but also creating a credit record where I presume she'll be at long disadvantage of having no history and not being eligible to register to vote. As soon as can get accepted for a credit card she probably should try get one to help raise credit record... perhaps a credit building card and in future times a one more suited to her circumstances be it high spending or travelling abroad etc. Oh and... make sure every time she enters the UK she gets her passport stamped if ever there is a future intention (after getting Indefinite Leave) to naturalise as UK citizen.. as it's primary evidence of presence here they use.

Thank you for taking the time to write all that,

yea it's complicated all right lol, but i'm slowly getting there, i was one that got my wife the visa and the Fee waiver before that for the visa and 10 months later my wife finally landed in the UK on 13th july, yea we been to my bank they have been great and told us what we need to do to get my wife added to my account, also applied for her NI, my next step was phoning DWP (ESA) But wasn't sure if it would trigger UC and that's why i made the post asking!!

just trying to get myself ready for if and when they say i'll need to move to UC like you said i could well be better off on it as i'm not getting SDP as my son lives at home so i'm not gonna lose money if anything i could get a little more on UC, yea i made a check list of things i need to make sure she has in place, as everything will be needed for her next visa.

Thank you!! Muttleythefrog 

Newcad

They will probably try to push you to claim UC, even though in the circumstances you don't have to.

However as you don't get the SDP then you will probably be better off on UC anyway, and I think you said you had already confirmed that.

Just in case you do decide to claim UC, either now or later:
With a couple one of who has NRPF the situation with claiming UC gets a bit strange.
Of course the person with NRPF cannot claim benefits, or benefit as a partner of a claimant, but is still counted as a partner for earned income, savings, capital, etc.
What happens is the DWP require that both members of the couple make a claim for UC and the person with NRPF has to have a verification interview .
The person with NRPF can't have a Claimant Commitment because they can't be a claimant, so doesn't have to attend a Claimant Commitment interview.

It does seem pretty odd that a person with NRPF is seemingly being told they have to make a benefit claim.
But it's the way that the DWP do it, and as long as no benefits money actually gets paid to the person with NRPF then it's all fine and legal.
Once it's all sorted out internally at the DWP it becomes a single person claim, plus a non-claiming partner.

This explains it in much more detail, it's not particularly easy to follow but as you have already been dealing with the Visa etc. then I'm sure you are used to reading stuff like this: https://medium.com/adviser/universal-credit-couple-claims-where-one-member-has-no-recourse-to-public-funds-e5aaf9ceac43

marcus6

Newcad said:

They will probably try to push you to claim UC, even though in the circumstances you don't have to.

However as you don't get the SDP then you will probably be better off on UC anyway, and I think you said you had already confirmed that.

Just in case you do decide to claim UC, either now or later:
With a couple one of who has NRPF the situation with claiming UC gets a bit strange.
Of course the person with NRPF cannot claim benefits, or benefit as a partner of a claimant, but is still counted as a partner for earned income, savings, capital, etc.
What happens is the DWP require that both members of the couple make a claim for UC and the person with NRPF has to have a verification interview .
The person with NRPF can't have a Claimant Commitment because they can't be a claimant, so doesn't have to attend a Claimant Commitment interview.

It does seem pretty odd that a person with NRPF is seemingly being told they have to make a benefit claim.
But it's the way that the DWP do it, and as long as no benefits money actually gets paid to the person with NRPF then it's all fine and legal.
Once it's all sorted out internally at the DWP it becomes a single person claim, plus a non-claiming partner.

This explains it in much more detail, it's not particularly easy to follow but as you have already been dealing with the Visa etc. then I'm sure you are used to reading stuff like this: https://medium.com/adviser/universal-credit-couple-claims-where-one-member-has-no-recourse-to-public-funds-e5aaf9ceac43

Thank you for this,

well i made the call to ESA today and waited for 40 min before someone picked up the phone, and the guy on the other end was very helpful and i said i needed to add my wife to the claim and he said yea that's fine!, i said to him but she is on a spouse visa and he said yea that's fine i'll send you out the form all you do is fill it in and send back to us, i then said to him is that it!!? he said yes it's very easy now not like it use to be...... omg i thought it was gonna be a nightmare to do