State Pension - will it eventually be means tested?

zagfles

Pat38493 said:

zagfles said:

eastcorkram said:

 He lost. Blair realised his mistake and won the 1997 election with a promise not to raise income tax on anyone, a promise made in all 3 elections he won (yes they did eventtually break that promise, but then lost the election).

But they did tinker with the NI system to effectively turn a portion of NI into exactly the same as income tax from the payer point of view (or is that what you meant by breaking the promise)?

Yes. But the point is about what is popular, what wins elections. A promise not to raise income tax on anyone is more popular than a promise not to raise income taxes on anyone except the "rich". The idea that most people approve of higher taxes on people richer than them is a myth. Probably partly because they have aspiration and think that one day they'll be "the rich".

Ganga

Silvertabby said:

Pat38493 said:

Any such changes would have to be made over an extremely long time period as people would need many years to plan for it (unless it was only targeted at ridiculously rich people in which case it wouldn't make a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things).

I would expect (hope?) that the seriously rich don't bother claiming their State pensions.

You think so? there have been people on this forum asking how they can deflect some of their high wages to enable them to claim family allowance on top 

zagfles

Ganga said:

Silvertabby said:

Pat38493 said:

Any such changes would have to be made over an extremely long time period as people would need many years to plan for it (unless it was only targeted at ridiculously rich people in which case it wouldn't make a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things).

I would expect (hope?) that the seriously rich don't bother claiming their State pensions.

You think so? there have been people on this forum asking how they can deflect some of their high wages to enable them to claim family allowance on top 

I doubt the PP's definition of "seriously rich" meant those earning a bit over £50k

Workerdrone

Personally, Ive always chosen just to run my projections as if there was no state pension in the UK. If its still around later, that a bonus, just less to draw down from 67/68

GibbsRule_No3.

To some degree it already is.  If you have a Private Pension then you are not able to claim things that State Pensioners, on Pension Credit get, like housing benefit and free or cheap entry to say Hampton Court or Kew Gardens etc.  I’m sure those added extras add up to quite a bit if you claim them. I’m sure some people with Private Pensions just beyond the limit for PC are worse off.

Steve_666_

UK gov could of course collect the tax gap, however might not be too popular with their donors?

https://news.sky.com/story/absolutely-staggering-hmrc-failing-to-collect-5-of-tax-thats-owed-as-its-value-revealed-12783782

Silvertabby

zagfles said:

Ganga said:

Silvertabby said:

Pat38493 said:

Any such changes would have to be made over an extremely long time period as people would need many years to plan for it (unless it was only targeted at ridiculously rich people in which case it wouldn't make a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things).

I would expect (hope?) that the seriously rich don't bother claiming their State pensions.

You think so? there have been people on this forum asking how they can deflect some of their high wages to enable them to claim family allowance on top 

I doubt the PP's definition of "seriously rich" meant those earning a bit over £50k

Exactly!  

zagfles

Steve_666_ said:

UK gov could of course collect the tax gap, however might not be too popular with their donors?

https://news.sky.com/story/absolutely-staggering-hmrc-failing-to-collect-5-of-tax-thats-owed-as-its-value-revealed-12783782

HMRC not doing their job! Incompetant civil servants! Oh wait, apologies, that's not allowed is it, what I meant was incompetant govt ministers, there, that's OK isn't it. In fact not just incompetant but also an implication of corruption in that they seek to facilitiate tax evasion for their mates. Yes, let's kick off some conspiracy theories!

Or maybe HMRC should look into the likes of top journalists and sports stars who get paid 10x or 100x as much as MPs/govt ministers using all sorts of creative accounting techniques to minimise their tax bills. But maybe their mates in the civil service unions turn a blind eye to them. No, that's a silly conspiracy theory isn't it!

luvchocolate

GibbsRule_No3. said:

To some degree it already is.  If you have a Private Pension then you are not able to claim things that State Pensioners, on Pension Credit get, like housing benefit and free or cheap entry to say Hampton Court or Kew Gardens etc.  I’m sure those added extras add up to quite a bit if you claim them. I’m sure some people with Private Pensions just beyond the limit for PC are worse off.

You can definitely get housing and council tax benefit with a full state pension and a works pensions 
Depending upon savings 

artyboy

Silvertabby said:

Pat38493 said:

Any such changes would have to be made over an extremely long time period as people would need many years to plan for it (unless it was only targeted at ridiculously rich people in which case it wouldn't make a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things).

I would expect (hope?) that the seriously rich don't bother claiming their State pensions.

I find that view a bit odd, so you are expected to pay contributions towards something for many years, but then shouldn't take the benefit just because you don't really need it?

Should the rich also be expected to give up their homes after they have finished paying off the mortgage? Maybe hand over their private pensions and other investments as they mature as well...