State Pension - will it eventually be means tested?

Silvertabby

artyboy said:

Silvertabby said:

Pat38493 said:

Any such changes would have to be made over an extremely long time period as people would need many years to plan for it (unless it was only targeted at ridiculously rich people in which case it wouldn't make a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things).

I would expect (hope?) that the seriously rich don't bother claiming their State pensions.

I find that view a bit odd, so you are expected to pay contributions towards something for many years, but then shouldn't take the benefit just because you don't really need it?

Should the rich also be expected to give up their homes after they have finished paying off the mortgage? Maybe hand over their private pensions and other investments as they mature as well...

No, of course not.  I mean multi-millionaires ( more of these in the UK than you'd think) to whom £10K is not worth the paperwork.

GibbsRule_No3.

luvchocolate said:

GibbsRule_No3. said:

To some degree it already is.  If you have a Private Pension then you are not able to claim things that State Pensioners, on Pension Credit get, like housing benefit and free or cheap entry to say Hampton Court or Kew Gardens etc.  I’m sure those added extras add up to quite a bit if you claim them. I’m sure some people with Private Pensions just beyond the limit for PC are worse off.

You can definitely get housing and council tax benefit with a full state pension and a works pensions 
Depending upon savings 

That was why I put “if you are just beyond the limit” for Pension Credit.  My entire SP pays for my rent now, 8 years ago when I opted to move where I live I had some spare money from it.  I now wonder why I worked for less money while I paid into the DB pension, I could possibly be better off getting my rent paid and other benefits that come with Pension Credit.  If I want to visit my local NT property I have to pay £14.50 or become a member, same goes for Kew Gardens, Tower of London, Hampton Court as examples, if I had PC it would cost £1. 

zagfles

GibbsRule_No3. said:

luvchocolate said:

GibbsRule_No3. said:

To some degree it already is.  If you have a Private Pension then you are not able to claim things that State Pensioners, on Pension Credit get, like housing benefit and free or cheap entry to say Hampton Court or Kew Gardens etc.  I’m sure those added extras add up to quite a bit if you claim them. I’m sure some people with Private Pensions just beyond the limit for PC are worse off.

You can definitely get housing and council tax benefit with a full state pension and a works pensions 
Depending upon savings 

That was why I put “if you are just beyond the limit” for Pension Credit.  My entire SP pays for my rent now, 8 years ago when I opted to move where I live I had some spare money from it.  I now wonder why I worked for less money while I paid into the DB pension, I could possibly be better off getting my rent paid and other benefits that come with Pension Credit.  If I want to visit my local NT property I have to pay £14.50 or become a member, same goes for Kew Gardens, Tower of London, Hampton Court as examples, if I had PC it would cost £1. 

Housing benefit isn't cut off at a cliff edge, it's tapered at 65%, so if you're just over the limit HB will be reduced a bit, you don't suddenly lose it when you exceed the threshold. A higher income doesn't make you worse off because of HB, due to the taper you can only lose 65p of HB per extra £1 of income, so you're not worse off with a higher income. 

Some other more minor benefits are cliff edge, but not HB.

artyboy

Silvertabby said:

artyboy said:

Silvertabby said:

Pat38493 said:

Any such changes would have to be made over an extremely long time period as people would need many years to plan for it (unless it was only targeted at ridiculously rich people in which case it wouldn't make a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things).

I would expect (hope?) that the seriously rich don't bother claiming their State pensions.

I find that view a bit odd, so you are expected to pay contributions towards something for many years, but then shouldn't take the benefit just because you don't really need it?

Should the rich also be expected to give up their homes after they have finished paying off the mortgage? Maybe hand over their private pensions and other investments as they mature as well...

No, of course not.  I mean multi-millionaires ( more of these in the UK than you'd think) to whom £10K is not worth the paperwork.

Well yes, Mrs Arty and myself for starters, once our private pensions and property are taken into account. 

Frankly I'm not overly put off by the paperwork, especially given the levels of NI we've actually paid over the years and will continue to do so as long as we're working (and let's not forget that extra 2% uncapped bit), despite being fully paid up for SP, and also reducing our dependency on the NHS through our employers private health insurance - for which we get taxed extra as well.

But perhaps we should just give up our SP for "the greater good" 

Or did you have a specific figure/threshold for "obscene wealth" that I can sneak in below?

retiringtoosoon

artyboy said:

Silvertabby said:

artyboy said:

Silvertabby said:

Pat38493 said:

Any such changes would have to be made over an extremely long time period as people would need many years to plan for it (unless it was only targeted at ridiculously rich people in which case it wouldn't make a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things).

I would expect (hope?) that the seriously rich don't bother claiming their State pensions.

I find that view a bit odd, so you are expected to pay contributions towards something for many years, but then shouldn't take the benefit just because you don't really need it?

Should the rich also be expected to give up their homes after they have finished paying off the mortgage? Maybe hand over their private pensions and other investments as they mature as well...

No, of course not.  I mean multi-millionaires ( more of these in the UK than you'd think) to whom £10K is not worth the paperwork.

Well yes, Mrs Arty and myself for starters, once our private pensions and property are taken into account. 

Frankly I'm not overly put off by the paperwork, especially given the levels of NI we've actually paid over the years and will continue to do so as long as we're working (and let's not forget that extra 2% uncapped bit), despite being fully paid up for SP, and also reducing our dependency on the NHS through our employers private health insurance - for which we get taxed extra as well.

But perhaps we should just give up our SP for "the greater good" 

Or did you have a specific figure/threshold for "obscene wealth" that I can sneak in below?

£20m net wealth

artyboy

retiringtoosoon said:

artyboy said:

Silvertabby said:

artyboy said:

Silvertabby said:

Pat38493 said:

Any such changes would have to be made over an extremely long time period as people would need many years to plan for it (unless it was only targeted at ridiculously rich people in which case it wouldn't make a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things).

I would expect (hope?) that the seriously rich don't bother claiming their State pensions.

I find that view a bit odd, so you are expected to pay contributions towards something for many years, but then shouldn't take the benefit just because you don't really need it?

Should the rich also be expected to give up their homes after they have finished paying off the mortgage? Maybe hand over their private pensions and other investments as they mature as well...

No, of course not.  I mean multi-millionaires ( more of these in the UK than you'd think) to whom £10K is not worth the paperwork.

Well yes, Mrs Arty and myself for starters, once our private pensions and property are taken into account. 

Frankly I'm not overly put off by the paperwork, especially given the levels of NI we've actually paid over the years and will continue to do so as long as we're working (and let's not forget that extra 2% uncapped bit), despite being fully paid up for SP, and also reducing our dependency on the NHS through our employers private health insurance - for which we get taxed extra as well.

But perhaps we should just give up our SP for "the greater good" 

Or did you have a specific figure/threshold for "obscene wealth" that I can sneak in below?

£20m net wealth

Phew, that's me safe then to plunder the public purse 

nigelbb

How on earth could the state pension be means tested? There are currently around twelve million people receiving a UK state pension with a million of those living abroad. How could overseas pensioners be means tested?

Silvertabby

artyboy said:

Silvertabby said:

artyboy said:

Silvertabby said:

Pat38493 said:

Any such changes would have to be made over an extremely long time period as people would need many years to plan for it (unless it was only targeted at ridiculously rich people in which case it wouldn't make a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things).

I would expect (hope?) that the seriously rich don't bother claiming their State pensions.

I find that view a bit odd, so you are expected to pay contributions towards something for many years, but then shouldn't take the benefit just because you don't really need it?

Should the rich also be expected to give up their homes after they have finished paying off the mortgage? Maybe hand over their private pensions and other investments as they mature as well...

No, of course not.  I mean multi-millionaires ( more of these in the UK than you'd think) to whom £10K is not worth the paperwork.

Well yes, Mrs Arty and myself for starters, once our private pensions and property are taken into account. 

Frankly I'm not overly put off by the paperwork, especially given the levels of NI we've actually paid over the years and will continue to do so as long as we're working (and let's not forget that extra 2% uncapped bit), despite being fully paid up for SP, and also reducing our dependency on the NHS through our employers private health insurance - for which we get taxed extra as well.

But perhaps we should just give up our SP for "the greater good" 

Or did you have a specific figure/threshold for "obscene wealth" that I can sneak in below?

Don't worry - I'm thinking of riches way in excess of yours!  Millionaire (on paper) families are 10 a penny, (value of property, pensions, etc) but for whom the State pension is an essential element of their retirement plans.  After all, a pensioner on just the State pension, living in a house in London that they bought decades ago, could well be a paper millionaire.

No, I mean the REAL rich.  £20m has already been mentioned, and unless this is all tied up in the value of an ancient family pile, then they may think that their time is more valuable than filling out the forms for 'just' £10K per year.

Flugelhorn

nigelbb said:

How on earth could the state pension be means tested? There are currently around twelve million people receiving a UK state pension with a million of those living abroad. How could overseas pensioners be means tested?

they won't means test it any more than it already is means tested ie the more you earn, the more you pay into the system and then when you get the pension, the more you pay out in tax

nigelbb

Flugelhorn said:

nigelbb said:

How on earth could the state pension be means tested? There are currently around twelve million people receiving a UK state pension with a million of those living abroad. How could overseas pensioners be means tested?

they won't means test it any more than it already is means tested ie the more you earn, the more you pay into the system and then when you get the pension, the more you pay out in tax

Not necessarily. You can move abroad after contributing & paying tax in the UK for just three years then pay Class 2 National Insurance contributions for the next thirty odd years & receive a full UK state pension of around £10,600 per year for the outlay of under £6,000. If you are living abroad while receiving a UK state pension the tax you pay on it will be in country where you live not the UK.