Shaker Doors – "Proper" Way vs Faker Shaker?

paperclap

Hi all,

Working out the specs for my shaker doors, for my alcove units.

My initial plan was to use an 18mm MDF backing board, with 6mm rails and styles glued and pinned on the face. Total door thickness, 24mm.

However, I wonder if it'd be worth doing it the "proper" way with loose tenons? Rails and stiles would be 18mm, with a 6mm centre panel. Tongues cut out (using this) on the inside of the 18mm rails and stiles. 6mm centre panel slotted into place. Then, 6mm tenons slotted into place. All glued up. No pins necessary. The benefit of it looking the same on the other side... and not having any "butt joins" or seams to contend with on the outer edges of the door. But, the total door thickness would of course be 18mm... not 24mm. Not sure if this'll be an issue with warping (doubtful, but wanted to ask)? But moreover, could it be an issue with the concealed hinges? Believe they're set in 14mm. Enough meat left there?

Here's a good video outlining this approach (if my noob explanation doesn't make sense!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwGvYsvdCg4

What do we all reckon?

Thanks!

travis-powers

Well if you have the time and would enjoy the work by all means build a proper door, I give my clients the option and they always take the cheapest which I feel is a shame.
18mm is plenty for your hinge, kitchen doors are usually 18mm.
 If built properly it’s highly unlikely you will have any warping it can sometimes happen with bigger door

paperclap

That is a shame. Is it that much more work?

I suppose the only pitfall is that the measurements need to be bang on!

Is the linked router bit the correct bit to use? Noticed it is 6.35mm. Is that to allow for some imperfection in a 6mm board (plus glue)?

travis-powers

Just watched the video Peter Millard is highly respected and a good source for information.
 The measurements are simple enough you could make the door slightly oversized and trim to fit any discrepancy in the openings, this is where having a tracksaw really come in handy for accurate cuts and trimming.
 The router bit he used is probably the safest one for the job but you could use a straight bit in a router table.
 Spot on about the extra .35mm.

paperclap

Indeed he is! Watched many of his videos.

You're right, maybe the measurements aren't any more difficult... as, as you've said, can always shave a millimetre off here and there if need be.

I've not got a tracksaw. But, I've had great success using a straight edge for cross cuts, and a 2.4m strip of MDF (using the factory edge) for rip cuts.

I think I'd use the one he'd used, so I can use my palm router and run it along.

Thanks again travis-powers! Always to the rescue!

ThisIsWeird

paperclap said:

Hi all,

Working out the specs for my shaker doors, for my alcove units.

My initial plan was to use an 18mm MDF backing board, with 6mm rails and styles glued and pinned on the face. Total door thickness, 24mm.

However, I wonder if it'd be worth doing it the "proper" way with loose tenons? Rails and stiles would be 18mm, with a 6mm centre panel. Tongues cut out (using this) on the inside of the 18mm rails and stiles. 6mm centre panel slotted into place. Then, 6mm tenons slotted into place. All glued up. No pins necessary. The benefit of it looking the same on the other side... and not having any "butt joins" or seams to contend with on the outer edges of the door. But, the total door thickness would of course be 18mm... not 24mm. Not sure if this'll be an issue with warping (doubtful, but wanted to ask)? But moreover, could it be an issue with the concealed hinges? Believe they're set in 14mm. Enough meat left there?

Here's a good video outlining this approach (if my noob explanation doesn't make sense!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwGvYsvdCg4

What do we all reckon?

Thanks!

Great video - a perfect, and talented, host.

I'll check out his other vid on why he doesn't do it Mickey-Mouse method any more. Meanwhile, I'll ask a Q; when he first held up the door example, did you know which of the two methods were used to make it? Nor me :-)

Sorry, I'm Mickey Mouse all the way. And the reason is simply that it's must easier to DIY with basic tools. I don't have the luxury of the routing bench or other tools. But I fully accept that the 'proper' way is more satisfying to both make and 'consider' as you look at your finished handywork :-)

ThisIsWeird

Just watched his 'why I don't' video, and I was expecting issues with warping and stuff, but no. So I'll continue to make them the MM way as there is no real reason not to.

I don't even bother with panel pins, just glue, but - yes - you do have to watch the stiles don't move as you clamp them. Also, wipe away all excess PVA from the visible surfaces before it dries.

paperclap

Don't suppose anyone has any recommendations on good router bits?

I've historically bought Trend. But, that's really down to availability on Amazon / Screwfix / Toolstation, etc.

I've heard very good things about Wealden router bits.

Any thoughts?

travis-powers

Wealden are as good Trend and has a greater range, in fact I feel that the quality of Trend isn’t as good as it was.
 Titman is another company you could look at.

paperclap

I've heard of Titman, but haven't looked into them extensively. But think they're the most expensive of the bunch?

After a 6.35mm slot cutter (for the above task).

Trend do one for ~£25. Max depth of slot cut is ~9mm. Not a huuuuge amount.

Wealden format is in bits. So after I've accounted for the slot cutter bit, arbor and a bearing, it's ~£40. Worth the extra? You do of course get the flexibility of interchanging bearing depths and doubling up on cutters in the future, if need be. Max depth of slot cut is ~13mm on this one. Just that bit better for loose tenons, I think?

travis-powers

ThisIsWeird said:

Just watched his 'why I don't' video, and I was expecting, perhaps, issues with warping and stuff, but no. I'll continue to make them the MM way, as there is no real reason not to.

I don't even bother with panel pins, just glue, but - yes - you do have to watch the stiles don't move as you clamp them. Also, wipe away all excess PVA from the visible surfaces before it dries.

I agree, I’ve never had the issues that he brought up and can only really see faker doors being a problem when they start to get bigger.
 A criticism I do have as well is I was taught to never glue the panel of a door to allow for movement I guess with mdf the movement would be minimal!