I want my non paying tenant to have a CCJ

Sarah1Mitty2

CurlySue2017 said:

Mr_GoldMine said:

london21 said:

Mr_GoldMine said:

Yes this tenant really is a slimy one... Wants to get away without paying rent, laughing in our faces...  I don't want this tenant to be able to get any kind of credit or a mortgage, clearly can't be trusted. 

Did the tenant pass affordability and referencing checks?

Hi

tenancy started Jan 2016, basic checks were carried out and this tenant paid market rate (at the time of 550pcm) and he paid on time for five years. for five years there was no rent increase (i didnt increase it because we had a good relationship and understanding), in year 5 the market rate had eventually gone to 850pcm....so i had to increase it... and it was only in year 6 i sat down with him and and said i need to increase rent, we verbally agreed £650 (kept it low for him as goodwill), i got the paperwork ready followoing day and then he refused to sign and started to go all funny with me, relationship broke down, i assigned a letting agent to take over but the tenant evaded the agent, subsequently the tenant stopped paying on grounds of house needs repairs etc. as soon as he was 2 months in arrears i started the S8 process (Nov 2022). Had the court hearing beginning of June 2023, tnt no-show and judge granted the reposession along with the arrears as at june 2023 and a daily rate for the extra days the tenant is in.

as soon as the 14 days were up, the following week, bailiff application was made.

it is not clear when the bailiff will be attending so we can change the locks, it could take 8 - 12 weeks, it could be sooner.

since the order has been made in the first week of june 2023, the tnt has been trying to call me and sending me messages asking for extension and to pay off arrears (without any rent increase) despite me informing in Aug 2022 all his communication should be directed to the assigned agent. If he wanted to pay any money then he could use the same bank details he has been paying into for more than 5 years...

this TnT is now what seems to be conniving and has some agendas, cant be trusted any more..

I'm interested in this part, in bold

Why did you have to increase the rent?  The way you have worded it suggests that it was just to keep up with the current market, in which case, you didn't "have to" increase it at all, you chose to and there is a big difference

Yes, this is important, and the way that a lot of landlords get themselves in trouble, the "market rate" is often published by vested interests like letting agents who have something to gain by telling landlords you can get X for your property, but "market rate" can change very quickly (look what happened to commercial property/office space for example) and if we get the predicted recession "market rate" will go down very quickly.

CurlySue2017

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

Yes, this is important, and the way that a lot of landlords get themselves in trouble, the "market rate" is often published by vested interests like letting agents who have something to gain by telling landlords you can get X for your property, but "market rate" can change very quickly (look what happened to commercial property/office space for example) and if we get the predicted recession "market rate" will go down very quickly.

Agreed.  And all the talk about LL's selling up.

I can only comment on what is happening in my area and that is that yes, some LL's are selling up.  But those properties (generally the two up two down terraces) are being very rapidly snapped up by other LL's, brought up to a decent standard and rented out again.  

So yes some LL's are selling up, but some are also buying up and improving the properties no end. Of course LL's are not a charity, I understand that, but ramping up rents just because you can - regardless of the hardship this may cause - is morally questionable IMO

For clarification I am not referring to the OP in that last line, it is just a general comment

caprikid1

CurlySue2017 said:

Hi

tenancy started Jan 2016, basic checks were carried out and this tenant paid market rate (at the time of 550pcm) and he paid on time for five years. for five years there was no rent increase (i didnt increase it because we had a good relationship and understanding), in year 5 the market rate had eventually gone to 850pcm....so i had to increase it... and it was only in year 6 i sat down with him and and said i need to increase rent, we verbally agreed £650 (kept it low for him as goodwill), i got the paperwork ready followoing day and then he refused to sign and started to go all funny with me, relationship broke down, i assigned a letting agent to take over but the tenant evaded the agent, subsequently the tenant stopped paying on grounds of house needs repairs etc. as soon as he was 2 months in arrears i started the S8 process (Nov 2022). Had the court hearing beginning of June 2023, tnt no-show and judge granted the reposession along with the arrears as at june 2023 and a daily rate for the extra days the tenant is in.

as soon as the 14 days were up, the following week, bailiff application was made.

it is not clear when the bailiff will be attending so we can change the locks, it could take 8 - 12 weeks, it could be sooner.

since the order has been made in the first week of june 2023, the tnt has been trying to call me and sending me messages asking for extension and to pay off arrears (without any rent increase) despite me informing in Aug 2022 all his communication should be directed to the assigned agent. If he wanted to pay any money then he could use the same bank details he has been paying into for more than 5 years...

this TnT is now what seems to be conniving and has some agendas, cant be trusted any more..

I'm interested in this part, in bold

Why did you have to increase the rent?  The way you have worded it suggests that it was just to keep up with the current market, in which case, you didn't "have to" increase it at all, you chose to and there is a big difference

We had to, because the market rate for a 3 bed house on that road at that time was £850 pcm, we couldnt jump to £850 or even £750 and based on the long term relationship it was set to £650, had we incremented rent by £20 per year from the beginning we would have been more or less at the same rate of £650 anyway.

ok, maybe we didnt have to, but we definetely chose to as landlords on the same road were charging higher rent, we felt we had fallen behind so much,

OK so you have corrected that statement - you didn't have to, you chose to.  There's a difference

anyway its the landlords right to increase rent... isn't it? within reasonable grounds off course....

Absolutely, yes

I don't think we were irrational or unfair at all, in year five i mentioned the rent increase, it was ignored but i did mention to him to look elsewhere, as we were ignored and he hadnt found a place we sat with him again only to be taken for fools this time round ... agreeing to £650 and then TnT doing a screeching U turn on his own word...

in fairness the TnT has known that we have wanted him out for at least 2 years...... i should think he has had more than enough notice.

I never said you had been unfair or irrational, the decision is yours alone and I am not judging you

I was just interested as I said, because the assertion that you "had to" increase the rent is simpy not the case and I wonder how many other LL's are saying this?

Do you not ask for payrise if you see others around you earning 20-30% more for the same job ? even if your expenses have not gone up ? Being a landlord is a Job just like any other.

BikingBud

caprikid1 said:

CurlySue2017 said:

Hi

tenancy started Jan 2016, basic checks were carried out and this tenant paid market rate (at the time of 550pcm) and he paid on time for five years. for five years there was no rent increase (i didnt increase it because we had a good relationship and understanding), in year 5 the market rate had eventually gone to 850pcm....so i had to increase it... and it was only in year 6 i sat down with him and and said i need to increase rent, we verbally agreed £650 (kept it low for him as goodwill), i got the paperwork ready followoing day and then he refused to sign and started to go all funny with me, relationship broke down, i assigned a letting agent to take over but the tenant evaded the agent, subsequently the tenant stopped paying on grounds of house needs repairs etc. as soon as he was 2 months in arrears i started the S8 process (Nov 2022). Had the court hearing beginning of June 2023, tnt no-show and judge granted the reposession along with the arrears as at june 2023 and a daily rate for the extra days the tenant is in.

as soon as the 14 days were up, the following week, bailiff application was made.

it is not clear when the bailiff will be attending so we can change the locks, it could take 8 - 12 weeks, it could be sooner.

since the order has been made in the first week of june 2023, the tnt has been trying to call me and sending me messages asking for extension and to pay off arrears (without any rent increase) despite me informing in Aug 2022 all his communication should be directed to the assigned agent. If he wanted to pay any money then he could use the same bank details he has been paying into for more than 5 years...

this TnT is now what seems to be conniving and has some agendas, cant be trusted any more..

I'm interested in this part, in bold

Why did you have to increase the rent?  The way you have worded it suggests that it was just to keep up with the current market, in which case, you didn't "have to" increase it at all, you chose to and there is a big difference

We had to, because the market rate for a 3 bed house on that road at that time was £850 pcm, we couldnt jump to £850 or even £750 and based on the long term relationship it was set to £650, had we incremented rent by £20 per year from the beginning we would have been more or less at the same rate of £650 anyway.

ok, maybe we didnt have to, but we definetely chose to as landlords on the same road were charging higher rent, we felt we had fallen behind so much,

OK so you have corrected that statement - you didn't have to, you chose to.  There's a difference

anyway its the landlords right to increase rent... isn't it? within reasonable grounds off course....

Absolutely, yes

I don't think we were irrational or unfair at all, in year five i mentioned the rent increase, it was ignored but i did mention to him to look elsewhere, as we were ignored and he hadnt found a place we sat with him again only to be taken for fools this time round ... agreeing to £650 and then TnT doing a screeching U turn on his own word...

in fairness the TnT has known that we have wanted him out for at least 2 years...... i should think he has had more than enough notice.

I never said you had been unfair or irrational, the decision is yours alone and I am not judging you

I was just interested as I said, because the assertion that you "had to" increase the rent is simpy not the case and I wonder how many other LL's are saying this?

Do you not ask for payrise if you see others around you earning 20-30% more for the same job ? even if your expenses have not gone up ? Being a landlord is a Job just like any other.

Based solely on the pay others are receiving no.

I would seek a pay rise if I was offering value over and above that of my colleagues.

I would seek evidence about the role i was fulfilling and why I was worth more, understand my objectives and agreed outputs and develop a clear case that wholly supported a reconsideration of my pay. 

I would engage in specific meeting with my LM, to discuss this and be absolutely clear the purpose and desired outcome.

A little different from asking for a rise, or deciding you were going to charge your tenant more rent just because prices always go up don't they!

Mr_GoldMine said:

Grizebeck said:

You actually sound really really bitter 

do i, oops.
just upset and dissapointed at inconvenience and financial loss... first time this has happened....

Based on the steady, long-term relationship the OP was receiving £6600 but has now lost out significantly with scope for yet still more losses. Is that sound business?

Sarah1Mitty2

CurlySue2017 said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

Yes, this is important, and the way that a lot of landlords get themselves in trouble, the "market rate" is often published by vested interests like letting agents who have something to gain by telling landlords you can get X for your property, but "market rate" can change very quickly (look what happened to commercial property/office space for example) and if we get the predicted recession "market rate" will go down very quickly.

Agreed.  And all the talk about LL's selling up.

I can only comment on what is happening in my area and that is that yes, some LL's are selling up.  But those properties (generally the two up two down terraces) are being very rapidly snapped up by other LL's, brought up to a decent standard and rented out again.  

So yes some LL's are selling up, but some are also buying up and improving the properties no end. Of course LL's are not a charity, I understand that, but ramping up rents just because you can - regardless of the hardship this may cause - is morally questionable IMO

For clarification I am not referring to the OP in that last line, it is just a general comment

Interesting that landlords are still buying, that would mean the supply issues that some feared are not going to happen, at least in your area. Are these properties being sold cheaply, as the FTB`ers that previously would have rushed in don`t have the same borrowing power any more?

Sarah1Mitty2

caprikid1 said:

CurlySue2017 said:

Hi

tenancy started Jan 2016, basic checks were carried out and this tenant paid market rate (at the time of 550pcm) and he paid on time for five years. for five years there was no rent increase (i didnt increase it because we had a good relationship and understanding), in year 5 the market rate had eventually gone to 850pcm....so i had to increase it... and it was only in year 6 i sat down with him and and said i need to increase rent, we verbally agreed £650 (kept it low for him as goodwill), i got the paperwork ready followoing day and then he refused to sign and started to go all funny with me, relationship broke down, i assigned a letting agent to take over but the tenant evaded the agent, subsequently the tenant stopped paying on grounds of house needs repairs etc. as soon as he was 2 months in arrears i started the S8 process (Nov 2022). Had the court hearing beginning of June 2023, tnt no-show and judge granted the reposession along with the arrears as at june 2023 and a daily rate for the extra days the tenant is in.

as soon as the 14 days were up, the following week, bailiff application was made.

it is not clear when the bailiff will be attending so we can change the locks, it could take 8 - 12 weeks, it could be sooner.

since the order has been made in the first week of june 2023, the tnt has been trying to call me and sending me messages asking for extension and to pay off arrears (without any rent increase) despite me informing in Aug 2022 all his communication should be directed to the assigned agent. If he wanted to pay any money then he could use the same bank details he has been paying into for more than 5 years...

this TnT is now what seems to be conniving and has some agendas, cant be trusted any more..

I'm interested in this part, in bold

Why did you have to increase the rent?  The way you have worded it suggests that it was just to keep up with the current market, in which case, you didn't "have to" increase it at all, you chose to and there is a big difference

We had to, because the market rate for a 3 bed house on that road at that time was £850 pcm, we couldnt jump to £850 or even £750 and based on the long term relationship it was set to £650, had we incremented rent by £20 per year from the beginning we would have been more or less at the same rate of £650 anyway.

ok, maybe we didnt have to, but we definetely chose to as landlords on the same road were charging higher rent, we felt we had fallen behind so much,

OK so you have corrected that statement - you didn't have to, you chose to.  There's a difference

anyway its the landlords right to increase rent... isn't it? within reasonable grounds off course....

Absolutely, yes

I don't think we were irrational or unfair at all, in year five i mentioned the rent increase, it was ignored but i did mention to him to look elsewhere, as we were ignored and he hadnt found a place we sat with him again only to be taken for fools this time round ... agreeing to £650 and then TnT doing a screeching U turn on his own word...

in fairness the TnT has known that we have wanted him out for at least 2 years...... i should think he has had more than enough notice.

I never said you had been unfair or irrational, the decision is yours alone and I am not judging you

I was just interested as I said, because the assertion that you "had to" increase the rent is simpy not the case and I wonder how many other LL's are saying this?

Do you not ask for payrise if you see others around you earning 20-30% more for the same job ? even if your expenses have not gone up ? Being a landlord is a Job just like any other.

Not if I know job cuts are coming, the media is reporting that ads for lodgers are massively up, online and elsewhere, BTL, AirBnB and the return to lodging can`t all compete on the same field, someone has to lose out. What would you do, keep paying a high rent for a basic flat or take a cozy room with a family trying to pay their mortgage who appreciate you being there and maybe include bills and a hot meal in the rent? 

Sarah1Mitty2

BikingBud said:

caprikid1 said:

CurlySue2017 said:

Hi

tenancy started Jan 2016, basic checks were carried out and this tenant paid market rate (at the time of 550pcm) and he paid on time for five years. for five years there was no rent increase (i didnt increase it because we had a good relationship and understanding), in year 5 the market rate had eventually gone to 850pcm....so i had to increase it... and it was only in year 6 i sat down with him and and said i need to increase rent, we verbally agreed £650 (kept it low for him as goodwill), i got the paperwork ready followoing day and then he refused to sign and started to go all funny with me, relationship broke down, i assigned a letting agent to take over but the tenant evaded the agent, subsequently the tenant stopped paying on grounds of house needs repairs etc. as soon as he was 2 months in arrears i started the S8 process (Nov 2022). Had the court hearing beginning of June 2023, tnt no-show and judge granted the reposession along with the arrears as at june 2023 and a daily rate for the extra days the tenant is in.

as soon as the 14 days were up, the following week, bailiff application was made.

it is not clear when the bailiff will be attending so we can change the locks, it could take 8 - 12 weeks, it could be sooner.

since the order has been made in the first week of june 2023, the tnt has been trying to call me and sending me messages asking for extension and to pay off arrears (without any rent increase) despite me informing in Aug 2022 all his communication should be directed to the assigned agent. If he wanted to pay any money then he could use the same bank details he has been paying into for more than 5 years...

this TnT is now what seems to be conniving and has some agendas, cant be trusted any more..

I'm interested in this part, in bold

Why did you have to increase the rent?  The way you have worded it suggests that it was just to keep up with the current market, in which case, you didn't "have to" increase it at all, you chose to and there is a big difference

We had to, because the market rate for a 3 bed house on that road at that time was £850 pcm, we couldnt jump to £850 or even £750 and based on the long term relationship it was set to £650, had we incremented rent by £20 per year from the beginning we would have been more or less at the same rate of £650 anyway.

ok, maybe we didnt have to, but we definetely chose to as landlords on the same road were charging higher rent, we felt we had fallen behind so much,

OK so you have corrected that statement - you didn't have to, you chose to.  There's a difference

anyway its the landlords right to increase rent... isn't it? within reasonable grounds off course....

Absolutely, yes

I don't think we were irrational or unfair at all, in year five i mentioned the rent increase, it was ignored but i did mention to him to look elsewhere, as we were ignored and he hadnt found a place we sat with him again only to be taken for fools this time round ... agreeing to £650 and then TnT doing a screeching U turn on his own word...

in fairness the TnT has known that we have wanted him out for at least 2 years...... i should think he has had more than enough notice.

I never said you had been unfair or irrational, the decision is yours alone and I am not judging you

I was just interested as I said, because the assertion that you "had to" increase the rent is simpy not the case and I wonder how many other LL's are saying this?

Do you not ask for payrise if you see others around you earning 20-30% more for the same job ? even if your expenses have not gone up ? Being a landlord is a Job just like any other.

Based solely on the pay others are receiving no.

I would seek a pay rise if I was offering value over and above that of my colleagues.

I would seek evidence about the role i was fulfilling and why I was worth more, understand my objectives and agreed outputs and develop a clear case that wholly supported a reconsideration of my pay. 

I would engage in specific meeting with my LM, to discuss this and be absolutely clear the purpose and desired outcome.

A little different from asking for a rise, or deciding you were going to charge your tenant more rent just because prices always go up don't they!

Mr_GoldMine said:

Grizebeck said:

You actually sound really really bitter 

do i, oops.
just upset and dissapointed at inconvenience and financial loss... first time this has happened....

Based on the steady, long-term relationship the OP was receiving £6600 but has now lost out significantly with scope for yet still more losses. Is that sound business?

Based on hindsight it was bad business, some tenants might have just paid up, who knows? The OP is right to want the tenant held accountable but as others with experience of the County Court system have stated, they are probably not going to be held very accountable, it is probably not worth the stress for 9k to be honest, just get the tenant out, drop the rent and get a new tenant (employed and well vetted) IMO.

CurlySue2017

caprikid1 said:

Do you not ask for payrise if you see others around you earning 20-30% more for the same job ? even if your expenses have not gone up ? Being a landlord is a Job just like any other.

No I don't.  I would base any request for a pay rise on my own ability, not on what others around me are doing

CurlySue2017

BikingBud said:

Do you not ask for payrise if you see others around you earning 20-30% more for the same job ? even if your expenses have not gone up ? Being a landlord is a Job just like any other.

Based solely on the pay others are receiving no.

I would seek a pay rise if I was offering value over and above that of my colleagues.

I would seek evidence about the role i was fulfilling and why I was worth more, understand my objectives and agreed outputs and develop a clear case that wholly supported a reconsideration of my pay. 

I would engage in specific meeting with my LM, to discuss this and be absolutely clear the purpose and desired outcome.

A little different from asking for a rise, or deciding you were going to charge your tenant more rent just because prices always go up don't they!

Mr_GoldMine said:

Grizebeck said:

You actually sound really really bitter 

do i, oops.
just upset and dissapointed at inconvenience and financial loss... first time this has happened....

Based on the steady, long-term relationship the OP was receiving £6600 but has now lost out significantly with scope for yet still more losses. Is that sound business?

Put far better than I could have put it! 

CurlySue2017

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

CurlySue2017 said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

Yes, this is important, and the way that a lot of landlords get themselves in trouble, the "market rate" is often published by vested interests like letting agents who have something to gain by telling landlords you can get X for your property, but "market rate" can change very quickly (look what happened to commercial property/office space for example) and if we get the predicted recession "market rate" will go down very quickly.

Agreed.  And all the talk about LL's selling up.

I can only comment on what is happening in my area and that is that yes, some LL's are selling up.  But those properties (generally the two up two down terraces) are being very rapidly snapped up by other LL's, brought up to a decent standard and rented out again.  

So yes some LL's are selling up, but some are also buying up and improving the properties no end. Of course LL's are not a charity, I understand that, but ramping up rents just because you can - regardless of the hardship this may cause - is morally questionable IMO

For clarification I am not referring to the OP in that last line, it is just a general comment

Interesting that landlords are still buying, that would mean the supply issues that some feared are not going to happen, at least in your area. Are these properties being sold cheaply, as the FTB`ers that previously would have rushed in don`t have the same borrowing power any more?

The area is one of the cheapest in the country anyway (North West) so property is much less compared to the rest of the UK, but in general yes.  

The FTB's are just not in a position to move quickly enough when up against investors ie: buy to let LL's

Seems to be because any deposits that were being saved are now worth less, so more saving is needed to raise the deposit and in the meantime, the property has sold.