Sofology Cancellation

turnitround

Alderbank said:

turnitround said:

tightauldgit said:

turnitround said:

Well we will have to disagree on that.  
I measure my doorways and  they are 36 inches wide,  the chair I want to buy is 34 inches wide.

 It will fit through if no turns or angles. However, if I have to go through one door and then turn at right angle in a tight space it will not go through unless I take a chunk out of the wallpaper.  How are the shop staff supposed to see the internal plan of my house.

If I went to buy a sofa then presumably I would look at it from every angle, measure and suss out where it would have to be delivered to and make a decision for which I would be responsible. I would not expect the salesperson to have any information other than the specific dimensions of the product I was interested in.

Well it's quite simple really - if you are a salesperson and you don't know if it will fit then you say 'i don't know if it will fit. it's up to you to determine that' if you decide to say 'yes it will fit. Sign here' to get the sale then it's YOUR responsibility if and when it doesn't.

But the salesperson can only go off what the customer tells them and if the customer just has basic measurements and does not take into consideration angles and corners  or has made a mistake then that is what the salesperson has to accept. 

Nothing in law to say the trader is forced to accept any demands of the would-be purchaser.
You've made that up.

I made nothing up, I didn't quote any law nor did I mention any demands. You are making that up lol.
Earlier you said that a traders answers become a binding contract. I was just pointing out that the traders answers are reliant on the customers information being correct. If the OP measured correctly and gave exact information as to the delivery situation then the salesperson would assume the sofa would fit.  In this case it did not so its equally possible that the OP had not relayed relevant information or measured correctly.

For example- I go to order a sofa armed with my measurements which I show the salesperson. I get asked 'Are there any tight corners, stairs, steps, etc, etc' and I reply 'No, nothing to worry about'. So the salesperson assures me all will be fine with my delivery. There is the binding contract.

On delivery day they guy bringing the sofa says 'Oh cant get it round that corner mate, wont fit because you have a radiator there'. 'Oh, I say, I didn't think that would be a problem, I never thought to mention that,. It wasn't a problem when we got the last sofa'.

Is that the salespersons fault?

Alderbank

Sofology's terms & conditions include:
 

25. Liability
You acknowledge and agree that we will have no liability for any incorrect information provided by you, for example incorrect measurements.

That seems fair and reasonable. It's not an Unfair Contract Term.

turnitround

Alderbank said:

Sofology's terms & conditions include:
 

25. Liability
You acknowledge and agree that we will have no liability for any incorrect information provided by you, for example incorrect measurements.

That seems fair and reasonable. It's not an Unfair Contract Term.

Exactly. So therefore unless the OP has proof they gave 'exact' measurements and info the store are not liable.

Alderbank

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

tightauldgit said:

SofaSurfer008 said:

I'm currently talking to them but they appear to be standing behind their T's & C's.

The online clause is in there that allows me to reject within 14 days of delivery.  Distance selling regs etc.

They haven't fulfilled the contract to deliver you a sofa. You aren't returning it to them, or changing your mind, or cancelling the order - presumably you still want the sofa. They are unable to fulfil the contract so should refund you in full. 

Delivery is classed as " voluntary transfer of possession from one person to another" which means possession or control over the goods passes from one (the trader) to the other (the consumer). 

Now it does say "voluntary" but I'm not sure what happens if they deliver the sofa to the OP at say at their front door, rather than inside their house, and then walk away as in that instance delivery (and physical possession for passing of risk) would likely be classed to have occurred.

Equally I'm not sure exactly what happens when the consumer simply refuses to accept delivery (perhaps by not answering the door), the contract may be treated at an end if delivery doesn't occur but whether the refusal to accept it plays any part I don't know. 

Perhaps one for @unholyangel if she is passing  

You pay £99 for delivery. I would expect more than dumping it outside, but I have looked in vain in their T&Cs for any description of what they do, or even whether delivery is part of the purchase contract or is a separate contract, possibly with a third party (as is usually the fitting of floor covering, for example). They do say they 'may' use a third party.

For when the consumer simply refuses to accept delivery (perhaps by not answering the door), the T&Cs say

If you're not at home when our drivers arrive, meaning we've been unable to make the delivery, we'll be more than happy to come back on another day, however you will need to pay for a second delivery (costing at least £99)

Not very clear legally but they don't seem to consider the contract to be at an end.

The T&Cs have a section
What if my sofa doesn't fit on delivery? Please see section called 'your rights to make changes to the contract'

Annoyingly that section just says 'you'll need to speak to one of our colleagues in Customer Services'.

https://www.sofology.co.uk/terms-and-conditions#delivery

pinkshoes

turnitround said:

Alderbank said:

Sofology's terms & conditions include:
 

25. Liability
You acknowledge and agree that we will have no liability for any incorrect information provided by you, for example incorrect measurements.

That seems fair and reasonable. It's not an Unfair Contract Term.

Exactly. So therefore unless the OP has proof they gave 'exact' measurements and info the store are not liable.

A court does not need PROOF. They go on beyond reasonable doubt and a balance of probabilities. 

If it went to court, on the "balance of probabilities", then given the OP has already had one failed sofa delivery due to the sofa being too big to fit through the doorways, then I think it would be a fair assumption that the OP did measure correctly and give Sofology the correct dimensions, and Sofology being the experts should have been table to establish whether the sofa would fit or not based on the dimensions given.

If they were not sure, they should have said "I'm not sure" then the OP would have to work it out for themselves. 

It is highly unlikely that the OP  would have given the wrong dimensions given they needed a sofa that fitted through the door and had already had one failed attempt, so would likely win in court. 

sheramber

Did the consumer give the measurement of the angle of the turn required  in the hall?

I would have thought that if the original sofa had to be split to get it in and the first delivery didn't fit, then it raised the question 'do I need a sofa that could be split?'

Was the second sofa the same size as the first one that didn't fit?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Alderbank said:.

For when the consumer simply refuses to accept delivery (perhaps by not answering the door), the T&Cs say

If you're not at home when our drivers arrive, meaning we've been unable to make the delivery, we'll be more than happy to come back on another day, however you will need to pay for a second delivery (costing at least £99)

Not very clear legally but they don't seem to consider the contract to be at an end.

A lot of places mention these redelivery fees but I don't think they are enforceable, the consumer should give a second time for delivery and after that they can treat the contract at an end (unless delivery time was essential in which case no second attempt required). 

Alderbank said:

You pay £99 for delivery. I would expect more than dumping it outside, but I have looked in vain in their T&Cs for any description of what they do, or even whether delivery is part of the purchase contract or is a separate contract, possibly with a third party (as is usually the fitting of floor covering, for example). They do say they 'may' use a third party.

A lot of places mention doorstep delivery and then up sell for delivery to room, etc (or those not up selling advertise it as part of their service). 

Without mention delivery would just mean control over the goods after coming into physical possession, obviously your postman doesn't come in to your home with a parcel and a sofa is no different in principle really, other than in size  

Okell

soolin said:

... I took photos and measurements into the store but it was difficult to explain to the salesperson about the exact nature of the turn and clearance. They said that if I went ahead with the sofa and had Parker Knoll make it for me I would not be able to get a refund if it couldn’t get into the house. However they had a brilliant solution, they had an identical sofa in the show room, they arranged to split that in half along the build joint (it is meant to do that) and bring one half to my house and see if it would fit. The following week they turned up, it took ages to negotiate the bend without damaging anything but they proved it would fit. They wrote in the contract that their delivery people had done a test run so the sale was based on them conforming it had fit, and also that PK were to leave it split at build joint...

That's excellent service from from what sounds like a proper furniture retailer with staff who know their job.  (And who know when to say "We can't say if it will fit...").

SofaSurfer008

That's brilliant customer service 👏. 

SofaSurfer008

sheramber said:

Did the consumer give the measurement of the angle of the turn required  in the hall?

I would have thought that if the original sofa had to be split to get it in and the first delivery didn't fit, then it raised the question 'do I need a sofa that could be split?'

Was the second sofa the same size as the first one that didn't fit?

Well, I didn't use a protractor, but I did explain fully the need for the sofa to be turned back along a small hallway.  

Yes, the new sofa can be split but apparently not into small enough pieces. 

The new sofa is smaller.