Package Holiday - Are we due cancelled flight compensation?

Mothman

We have just returned from a 7 night TUI river cruise in Germany which was a package holiday with flights thru Lufthansa. However on arrival at Birmingham airport we found that our flight to Munich had been cancelled. After an 8hr wait in the check-in hall we were eventually told by TUI that we would be put up overnight in an airport hotel and had been booked on a Lufthansa flight to Frankfurt for 6:00am the following morning, to be followed by a 4./1/2hr coach transfer to the boat (original transfer from Munich was to be only 2hrs). TUI have refunded one seventh of the holiday price for the missed night of the cruise but have refused to offer any compensation for the flight cancellation and hassle, they say is not their responsibility and that it is up to us to peruse this with Lufthansa. Is this correct or is TUI ultimately responsible as the package tour operator?

The Lufthansa\Swissport staff at the airport were not very helpful and would only say that the flight had been cancelled due to "Bad Weather". As the weather at Birmingham and Munich was OK we can only assume this 'Bad Weather' applied to the incoming flight, though no firm details were given by Lufthansa. One member of staff mentioned a flight from Marseilles to us but then another passenger was told Greece.

Really just trying to establish what our rights are, is it TUI or Lufthansa we have to pursue for compensation and can either of them just blame  'Bad Weather' and leave it at that or do they need to provide more detailed proof?

eskbanker

Mothman said:

TUI have refunded one seventh of the holiday price for the missed night of the cruise but have refused to offer any compensation for the flight cancellation and hassle, they say is not their responsibility and that it is up to us to peruse this with Lufthansa. Is this correct or is TUI ultimately responsible as the package tour operator?

Yes, it's correct, it's the operating air carrier (aka airline) who is responsible for paying compensation in the event of cancellation, regardless of the route via which you booked the flight.  This is likely to be to your advantage, as TUI might resist a claim anyway, I'm sure there was another recent thread where they took the view that flight compensation and compensation for missing some of a package holiday amounted to 'double-dipping'.

Mothman said:

The Lufthansa\Swissport staff at the airport were not very helpful and would only say that the flight had been cancelled due to "Bad Weather". As the weather at Birmingham and Munich was OK we can only assume this 'Bad Weather' applied to the incoming flight, though no firm details were given by Lufthansa. One member of staff mentioned a flight from Marseilles to us but then another passenger was told Greece.

Really just trying to establish what our rights are, is it TUI or Lufthansa we have to pursue for compensation and can either of them just blame  'Bad Weather' and leave it at that or do they need to provide more detailed proof?

An airline isn't obliged to pay compensation for cancelled flights "if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken", and there's plenty of debate about exactly what constitutes extraordinary circumstances, so 'bad weather' isn't really adequate in itself, there needs to be a significant impact in terms of runway closures, air traffic control restrictions, etc.  However, airlines are notoriously reluctant to go into detail and hope to fob claimants off with vague messages - unfortunately there's little that can be done to challenge this as they hold all the cards, so you need to put the claim in and see what response you get.  If it's rejected, and you feel that this is in error then you can escalate via an ADR provider (if they use one), or small claims.

Mothman

Re Flight LH2509 BHX -MUC 23/6/23

As expected I got the following very vague fob off from Lufthansa:-

"Every effort is made to maintain our flight timetable and avoid waiting times.Unfortunately, some irregularities are outside our sphere of influence. This is especially true for weather conditions, which were also the reason why we were not able to operate your flight as planned."

Having checked on 'Flight Aware' it seems that on the morning of 23/6/23 some incoming flights to the UK from Munich were cancelled and some where not, for example

LH2470 MUC to LHR  (07:15) Cancelled

BA947   MUC to LHR  (07:25) Departed 07:42

LH2472 MUC to LHR  (08:55) Cancelled

LH2500 MUC to MAN (08:55) Departed 09:46

LH2508 MUC to BHX (09:30)  Cancelled (this was our incoming flight)

This indicates to me that bad weather at Munich was not the cancellation cause, as I'm not sure how a flight scheduled to depart at 09:30 be cancelled due to bad weather and then another flight from the same airline depart at 09:46

Going back one further step, as far as I can ascertain the incoming flight for LH2508 should have been LH2273 from Marseilles (MRS) to Munich (MUC), however Flight Aware does not list this morning flight on 23/6, only the afternoon flight which operates instead from Nice. Does anyone here have access to any alternative historic flight data site and can confirm if this morning flight was cancelled?

Below is a screenshot I took from Flightradar24 @ 14:00 hrs on 23/6 showing Marseilles departure stats, which again doesn't seem to indicate major disruption due to bad weather.

I obviously don't want to waste my time as I'm not sure how many flights back the airlines can go to play the bad weather card, so I would be interested if others think there is a case to pursue? Thanks and apologies for the long post.

Mothman

Update: It is possible the Marseilles - Munich flight may have been LH2267 as this is showing as cancelled on 23/6. So I think the flight chain may have been

LH2267 (06:00 local) MRS - MUC cancelled

LH2508 (09:30 local) MUC - BHX cancelled

LH2509 (11:00 lcoa)  BHX - MUC cancelled

Bad weather does not appear to have been a major factor effecting departures on 23/6 at any of these airports.

Westin

On 23rd June there were the following issues within Europe that may possibly of affected your flight:

1. Weather, strong winds gusting 25-30 TK over parts of Italy, Southern France, Spain and Germany.
2. ATC, flow restrictions late afternoon due to weather in parts of Europe.
3. ATC, airspace restrictions and several sectors regulated due to NATO air exercises.

Nickg010

You were lucky!!
we suffered 2509 on 23 June being cancelled just as we were leaving home for the airport. Got rebooked on the flight to Munich via Frankfurt the next day, and they managed to loose our bags for 2 days.
so, Allianz insurance say we can’t claim the cost of our hotel in Austria which charged us for the missed night accom and car hire cancellation, “ because we had not left home”
lufthansa say they won’t pay or give us compo because it was a weather issue despite the guy on the check in desk saying we were cancelled because they had no crew. We have weather reports for Munich and Birmingham, no weather issues and I have asked 6 times “ what was the issue” and they refuse to say.

We had been made to check our carry on because the plane was full, so after a 2 hour stand in line at the lost baggage desk were told we could spend up to €1000 each on essential clothes as we had nothing but what we had travelled in. But, all shops were shut by the time we got to our hotel in the mountains, so we made do with a hotel jacket and T-shirt and washing undies and drying with the hairdryer. 

We spent about €300 each on the Monday on essential clothes. Lufthansa have admitted liability but want us to accept 50% because we have the clothes. 

We lost 3 days of our holiday, not our fault, we are fully insured but can’t get a penny. The Airline are telling porkies, and their staff are arrogant. 

Now trying ADR