Credit Card Fraud

eskbanker

grumbler said:

Unfortunately, the DD works against the OP too - the fraudster had to know the current account details.

And ATM withdrawals signify a known PIN too - obviously card companies can't guarantee that PINs will arrive separately from cards but they'll be sent independently, so it's understandable why they'd be sceptical about a third party gaining access to the card and the PIN and the current account details....

born_again

grumbler said:

CCTV, even if it exists, doesn't prove anything. The OP could ask somebody to withdraw money (I'm just playing the devil's advocate). The same applies to the area.
Unfortunately, the DD works against the OP too - the fraudster had to know the current account details.

That is something for the OP to ponder, just who would know that they had set up a account.
"The first I knew of it was when a direct debit was taken from a switching account that I had recently set up."

Sadly this. Is what the Op needs to focus on, as it has to be someone known to them. Given they live in a house with it's own letterbox. Unlike flats where anyone could pick up & look at mail.
So could be current boy/girl friend or anyone else they have disclosed this info to or has access to house, which could be while OP is there & seen the details.

Horrible when it is someone known to the person.

Matafleur

grumbler said:

CCTV, even if it exists, doesn't prove anything. The OP could ask somebody to withdraw money (I'm just playing the devil's advocate). The same applies to the area.
Unfortunately, the DD works against the OP too - the fraudster had to know the current account details.

Yes, I'm keenly aware. I find it very odd that the dd was set up on a brand new bank account. I had very recently run through the MSE switching offers and the accounts were only open for a couple of weeks before I switched to the next. I'm not even sure which account the dd would originally have been set up on as it didn't come out till June and the cc was applied for in April.

This is just horrible. 

Matafleur

eskbanker said:

grumbler said:

Unfortunately, the DD works against the OP too - the fraudster had to know the current account details.

And ATM withdrawals signify a known PIN too - obviously card companies can't guarantee that PINs will arrive separately from cards but they'll be sent independently, so it's understandable why they'd be sceptical about a third party gaining access to the card and the PIN and the current account details....

I hadn't even thought of that tbh. I honestly don't understand how it's even possible.  I am extremely single, no-one other than me or my son has even been in my house for months.

elasto

They knew your name, address, dob, email address and bank details (and probably address history too).

They ordered the card while you were out of the country (unlikely to be a coincidence) and either gained entry or intercepted the postal worker twice.

This is either a highly targeted attack or its someone that knows you.

You worry that it might happen again, but I think it's much harder now you have alerted CIFAS: Any further attempts at credit will  demand extensive checks including photo id etc.

Keep at it!

They may keep demanding the money for a while yet but there'll eventually be important evidence uncovered. There'll be plenty of CCTV at the supermarkets, for example. Or maybe a neighbour has a video doorbell that caught the interception. 

You don't need enough evidence uncovered for the fraudster to be caught and convicted; you only need enough found to show reasonable doubt that you were complicit.

Keep the faith!

Brie

I would contact the CC company and ask for a copy of the agreement "you" signed as a first step in proving the fraud.  Tell them that you don't want to talk to customer service but to their fraud team.  If they refuse to pass this to that team then get them to lodge it as a complaint stating that you have been "financially disadvantaged" by their lack of security.  Essentially they need to prove that you requested the card.  If they say it was done online then they need to provide the IP address so you can compare that to yours.  They also need to provide you with all statements, a list of all transactions and their locations.

You should ask for the card to be cancelled or at least that the pin by changed to one of your choosing - and go for something completely random for you.  The numbers on your first car's licence plate, your best friend's phone number when you were 10 years of age.  Something no one else is likely to know or be able to guess.  

cymruchris

As others have pointed out, if someone did apply for the card, then aside from knowing your personal details, they also were able to find out your bank account details to set up a direct debit. That's not a straightforward thing to do. 

Most likely it is someone that knows you and your movements - as they'd have to retrieve/intercept the card one way or another, but additionally would need a way to have found out your bank details as well. 

Now could be a good time for your own peace of mind to set up some kind of doorbell camera so that all callers to the door are recorded. 

You haven't sent any electronic devices for repair anywhere locally recently? PC/Ipad etc?

This is one where I'd certainly report it to the Police, that as much as they likely won't take much action, it demonstrates you're serious about the fact that it wasn't you, and you want to find out who it was.... Get a Police reference number and refer it back to Capital One and be like dog with a bone - don't give up! Keep insisting it wasn't you, and gather as much evidence as possible to prove that it wasn't. 

Not a pleasant experience - but do update us on your progress.

Matafleur

I have to be honest, if I wasn't 100% sure I hadn't applied for the card then I wouldn't believe it was fraudulent either.

I've even gone back through all my emails to check that I didn't apply!!

I've started round my neighbours to see if anyone has cameras but no luck yet. I think trying to IP address for the application is going to be my best bet. 

My credit report shows that the card has a £3k limit so I'm hoping that worst case, that would be my exposure if I had to pay. I have a perfect credit report that I don't want ruined either! 

I will be going to the Ombudsman if no luck with the credit card directly but will make them give me all the transaction details first. Of course I don't have any app access or statements or even the card number at the moment!

p00hsticks

Matafleur said:

I will be going to the Ombudsman if no luck with the credit card directly but will make them give me all the transaction details first. Of course I don't have any app access or statements or even the card number at the moment!

I'm lucky enough that  this has never happened to me, but, while I completely understand your need to find out everything about how it's been used, my thought is that you need to be a bit careful here when dealing with the card company as there are two separate scenarios here. 

Either it IS your card, opened by you, in which case you are perfectly entitled to ask for transaction details, statements etc. 

Or it is NOT your card, it was opened by a fraudster without your knowledge and you therefore understand that you this means you do not have acces to any of the details but leave it to the card issuer to follow up on... 

elasto

Yes, the CC company can't have it both ways: If they claim it was you then they can't deny you all the information they have including the application data and metadata, all transactions made etc.

If they claim they can't due to 'data privacy laws' then that's an implicit admission they think it might not have been you opening the account...

Someone above suggested asking the bank to change the PIN. I'd just point out that the PIN can be viewed in the Capital One credit card app, so if the fraudster downloaded that then they could just view it again.

I suspect the fraudster has cut ties with the account after maxing it out though; I doubt they still have the app on their phone where it could potentially be tracked by the authorities.