Spray Foam Insulation

Sgt_P_Lodd

I posted a slightly different question on the mortgages board specifically about getting a mortgage for a house with spray foam insulation. This question is a bit more general.

The buyer (a friend) actually has a mortgage offer, so they could proceed if they want to - but I'm interested to hear people's more general comments and experiences about spray foam.   An independent RICS surveyor has recommended it's removed asap.  So one option would be to buy the house (with a suitable discount), and then get it removed.

As background info, at the moment they don't yet know if it's open cell or closed cell. It was installed 10 years ago and has 20 years left of a 30 year guarantee (but they don't yet know the scope of the guarantee, whether it's insurance backed etc). Also, they don't yet know what installation paperwork exists.  They'll be investigating this stuff further.

But I'd welcome any thoughts or opinions on proceeding with this purchase.

propertyrental

In the buyer's position, I would either

a) walk away, or
b) require a purchase price discount equal to the cost of the spray foam removal

FreeBear

Sgt_P_Lodd said: As background info, at the moment they don't yet know if it's open cell or closed cell. It was installed 10 years ago and has 20 years left of a 30 year guarantee (but they don't yet know the scope of the guarantee, whether it's insurance backed etc).

Makes no difference whether it is open or closed cell foam - Both will trap moisture in the roof timbers and stick to everything when it was sprayed. The marketing bullsh.. says that open cell is "breathable" without providing any meaningful data to back up this claim. It also fails to mention that a skin forms on top of the foam, and it still contains a percentage of closed cells.

The guarantee may be transferable and might be insurance backed, but you can be sure it will be full of holes so that they can wriggle out of any obligation.

MultiFuelBurner

So what we can take from this is that an insurance on spray foam insulation will be an open cell policy. Full of holes.

What I think the OP now needs is some official links to read rather than MSE pub talk.

Btw I don't disagree run away from spray foam insulation but even I would like to read the facts👍

Dustyevsky

There may be facts, but the message is clear: people don't like this 'enhancement' and many will run a mile from it. There has to be a substantial discount to make such a purchase worth entertaining.

FreeBear

MultiFuelBurner said: Btw I don't disagree run away from spray foam insulation but even I would like to read the facts👍

Separating the facts from the marketing BS is not easy. But a couple of articles from (hopefully) trustworthy sources -

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/insulation/article/spray-foam-insulation-ajTlp7t5K7lT

https://www.rics.org/news-insights/rics-release-new-spray-foam-consumer-guide

In a nutshell, if the building has been designed with spray foam insulation in mind (i.e. Warm Roof), then it is OK. With a cold roof design (the vast majority of houses in the UK) where the roof space is ventilated and not habitable, spray foam is bad - Think about it for a moment. The loft space is ventilated to minimise condensation. It is not occupied so no point in heating it. Spraying foam on the underside of the roof blocks ventilation, and you waste energy heating a large unused space.

Sgt_P_Lodd

Thanks for the comments.

It now seems it's closed cell spray foam, and they're looking at options to remove the spray foam.  There are some companies that offer "dry ice blasting". I think that involves freezing the foam so that it becomes brittle and can be broken off.

Does anyone have comments or experience of going down that route?

propertyrental

Sgt_P_Lodd said:

Thanks for the comments.

It now seems it's closed cell spray foam, and they're looking at options to remove the spray foam.  There are some companies that offer "dry ice blasting". I think that involves freezing the foam so that it becomes brittle and can be broken off.

Does anyone have comments or experience of going down that route?

No experience, but I guarantee that as you (they) break off the brittle foam, you (they'll) also break off a good number of tiles too.

matthew91822

Sgt_P_Lodd said:

I posted a slightly different question on the mortgages board specifically about getting a mortgage for a house with spray foam insulation. This question is a bit more general.

The buyer (a friend) actually has a mortgage offer, so they could proceed if they want to - but I'm interested to hear people's more general comments and experiences about spray foam.   An independent RICS surveyor has recommended it's removed asap.  So one option would be to buy the house (with a suitable discount), and then get it removed.

As background info, at the moment they don't yet know if it's open cell or closed cell. It was installed 10 years ago and has 20 years left of a 30 year guarantee (but they don't yet know the scope of the guarantee, whether it's insurance backed etc). Also, they don't yet know what installation paperwork exists.  They'll be investigating this stuff further.

But I'd welcome any thoughts or opinions on proceeding with this purchase.

Any update regarding this?

I am in almost the same situation - found a great property but the survey found spray foam. 

At the moment I do have my full mortgage offer already, the lenders did a desktop valuation and my survey was independent so technically the lender doesnt know.

In the medium term I do intend on adding a dormer anyway.

Sgt_P_Lodd

matthew91822 said:

Sgt_P_Lodd said:

I posted a slightly different question on the mortgages board specifically about getting a mortgage for a house with spray foam insulation. This question is a bit more general.

The buyer (a friend) actually has a mortgage offer, so they could proceed if they want to - but I'm interested to hear people's more general comments and experiences about spray foam.   An independent RICS surveyor has recommended it's removed asap.  So one option would be to buy the house (with a suitable discount), and then get it removed.

As background info, at the moment they don't yet know if it's open cell or closed cell. It was installed 10 years ago and has 20 years left of a 30 year guarantee (but they don't yet know the scope of the guarantee, whether it's insurance backed etc). Also, they don't yet know what installation paperwork exists.  They'll be investigating this stuff further.

But I'd welcome any thoughts or opinions on proceeding with this purchase.

Any update regarding this?

I am in almost the same situation - found a great property but the survey found spray foam. 

At the moment I do have my full mortgage offer already, the lenders did a desktop valuation and my survey was independent so technically the lender doesnt know.

In the medium term I do intend on adding a dormer anyway.

Yes - sounds like a very similar situation.

Like you, the buyers had a mortgage offer.  But they decided to tell the lender about the spray foam insulation. And the mortgage offer was withdrawn immediately.


So the sellers eventually agreed to remove the spray foam. (They got a specialist firm you removed it by 'dry ice blasting')

So the timbers etc were then all exposed, and the buyers sent in their surveyor to check for rot etc. The surveyor said everything is ok. The mortgage lender reinstated their offer. So the buyers are proceeding with the purchase.


 
In your position, I guess you could not mention the spray foam to the lender, and go ahead. But you might be buying a property with hidden rotten roof timbers.

matthew91822

Sgt_P_Lodd said:

 
In your position, I guess you could not mention the spray foam to the lender, and go ahead. But you might be buying a property with hidden rotten roof timbers.

I spoke to my solicitor and whilst they didn't recommend anything they did mention that it may invalidate my buildings insurance as the lender will not lend based on spray foam being present. 

I passed the info to my broker who let the lender know and the lender came back that they have 'suspended the mortgage offer' until the foam has been removed and the roof structure can be inspected.

Time to tell the vendor...