“Vehicle not registered” at the dr surgery parking

Miko_2

We got a parking ticket in October 2022 but only found out about it last March. All letters were sent to our old address (long story but we failed to change our address with DVLA – it is up to date now) and only by chance we got hold of 2 letters from Debt Recovery Plus dated Dec 2022 and Jan 2023. We believe that the previous letters were sent back to the sender by the current tenants at our old address.

Since then, we contacted the UK CPM and asked them to update our address with them and any of their agents (took over a month). We received another letter from Debt Recovery Plus at our current address in May. We also sent an email requesting info regarding our PCN and received several documents from their DPO exactly a month later. Today we received a Letter before Claim from Gladstone Solicitors.

The ticket is from UK CPM for “Vehicle not registered” at a car parking belonging to our doctor’s surgery. We were frequent visitors at the surgery in Sep-Dec 2022 due to our child’s health issues.  Patients have to type their car registration number into a tablet at the doctor’s reception when attending the surgery. After a bit of digging, we figured out that on this particular visit, we dropped off a sample for testing so were there for less than 10 min (we have the test results with the date).

We received a copy of NTK and photos of our cark parked at the parking lot but there is no evidence that we did not register our car at the tablet at the doctor’s office. Also the NTK incident time 12:44 is incorrect and we have evidence on our car app we arrived at 12:15 and left 12:24. Their photo time stamp is 12:21.

We can not pursue plan A as the surgery has refused any kind of help to several patients and does not get involved in the disputes with UK CPM.

We are trying to figure out what to do next and your advice will be greatly appreciated. We read **NEWBIES!! PRIVATE PARKING TICKET? OLD OR NEW? ** and have learned a lot already.  We also have searched and read some existing posts but have not found similar case with “Vehicle not registered”.

Le_Kirk

Demand (pleasantly) that the surgery cancel it and when they tell you that they cannot, remind them of the NHS parking principles, ask Auntie Google.

Coupon-mad

We can not pursue plan A as the surgery has refused any kind of help to several patients and does not get involved in the disputes with UK CPM.

You can and should add to those complaints immediately.  Do it despite expecting a fob-off.

Nothing will change and UKCPM won't be sacked if not enough patients LOUDLY complain and point out they are liable for the rogue conduct of their agent.

Have a read of NHS car parking guidance 2022 for NHS trusts and NHS foundation trusts. where you will see...

KeithP

@Coupon-mad and @Le_Kirk, are doctor's surgeries part of either a NHS Trust or NHS Foundation Trust?

I don't think they are, so the document mentioned may not be as useful as one might like.

1505grandad

Get your MP involved.

Coupon-mad

KeithP said:

@Coupon-mad and @Le_Kirk, are doctor's surgeries part of either a NHS Trust or NHS Foundation Trust?

I don't think they are, so the document mentioned may not be as useful as one might like.

I don't think they are part of an NHS Trust but tend to use that anyway to make them realise they are completely at odds with NHS Parking policy.  It's a good weapon to deploy in a complaint.

Also it says 'NHS organisations'.

I'd say a GP surgery is within that umbrella phrase... 

B789

Explain to the Surgery manager that they are jointly liable for the actions of their agents and you intend to fight this unjust, speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking company all the way to court. In which case, they should inform their legal advisors and provide you with details of who will be attending any subsequent hearing.

Highlight the fact that they have been asked to get the PCN cancelled ad have refused outright to do so and therefore they are now jointly liable and this fact will be highlighted to the judge at the hearing.

Miko_2

Thank you very much for your replies. We are going to write a complaint to the surgery. Since it might take time to sort it this way, we would also like to request SAR.

Can we request the log (from the tablet) of all vehicle registration numbers (I guess partial) that were entered between time of our arrival and departure to prove ours is not there. Will they have to present it to the court as evidence that we did not register our car? How else can they prove "Vehicle not registered"? 

We also know that their incident time is wrong. Do they need to provide evidence of arrival and departure times? 

Half_way

The NHS parking principles, amongst other things re-enforces the fact that the principal is jointly and severally liable for the actions of its agents , closing off the usual fob off where the line of "its nothing to do with us, its a third party contractor" rubbish gets trotted out.

As for timings, although its doesnt always record everything ive recently discovered an option on google maps timeline where you can select "raw" as an option and your timeline turns into red blobs with each blob having a time if you zoom in ( on a pc not a phone)

B789

@Miko_2, in a SAR, you can only request YOUR data. You are the "subject". The log of data from the tablet, is not YOUR data and it will not be given.

Should this ever proceed to a claim, then you able to request the data if would form part of your defence. Cross that bridge when you come to it.

Miko_2

B789 said:

@Miko_2, in a SAR, you can only request YOUR data. You are the "subject". The log of data from the tablet, is not YOUR data and it will not be given.

Should this ever proceed to a claim, then you able to request the data if would form part of your defence. Cross that bridge when you come to it.

Thank you B789!

I am confused because we received a Letter Before Claim so would like to see their evidence they are going to use. Do I have to wait to see evidence until they file a claim? 

This is from the guide for newbies:

"A SAR is free. Ask for (as a minimum):
- ALL photos taken
- all letters/emails sent and received, including any appeal correspondence earlier
- if the car park was Pay and Display, ALWAYS ask for a PDT machine record from that day, of payments made (VRNs can be partially redacted but insist on getting this; follow it up if they refuse).
- all data held, all evidence they will rely on, and a full copy of the PCN, NTK
- and a list of all PCNs outstanding against you and/or this VRN, and remind them that any claim must be for all PCNs, not several separate claims."